F878 SRX - a few changes

[-Jo-]

have you tried the search-button ? Many cam specs are posted in the past. GrN-GrA-Rally-cup-piper-techniprofil-jaqmine.....................

 

[Haz]

have you tried the search-button ? Many cam specs are posted in the past. GrN-GrA-Rally-cup-piper-techniprofil-jaqmine.....................

i have tried the search button when i joined, read alot of interesting threads but not containing the right information, although i will try again with you suggestions

but as i haven't found this anywhere

regards the 803's on chip suggested, what fuel pressure they are at idle, and which regulator is used (so i can find out the increase on boost pressure), and what afr's are at idle, crusing and wot (using which ecu) i would understand more, til then ??.

 

[-Jo-]

between 3.2 and 3.4 bar on idle. I'm using the Malpassi, double membram, up to 12 bar (bit overdone). Afr on idle, 13.5, 12.7 cruising, 11.7-11.9 full boost.

There is something i dont understand, dont blame me for this. You're questions are realy strange to me because as far as i could understand you're working with Scoff. You want to go standalone, adaptronic or similar, but at this stage you're asking about the settings on std gear. Scoff got the emulator so i cant see the point why you're asking about these values ???? Bare in mind that there are not 2 identical engine's. That doesnt exist. Even the age on the wiringloom can cause diff's. People on here ask me to sell them one off my chips (eprom) but i just dont do that. My programs are done while the car is on the dyno, as you can see in the many video's on youtube, emulator still attached.

Whats wrong with 6500 rpm ? Everything above that is useless. The design on the head, 8 hughe valves are developed for low down torque. Its possible to go higher, no problem at all, but not when you're on a budget and absolute not on std liners. Best result ive seen on a stock bottomend was 277 atw and that car belongs to Rob Vogels (dutch owner who visit the site also). It didnt last long because off the weakness in the flat spot on the liners and aged liners.

To end, i get the impression that you are a smartass, wich is good. I have exactly the same (problem?-lol), but if you're on a budget its impossible to do some testwork. 21 parts aint cheap such as C1J parts.

Sometimes the language is a barrier for me, if i read correct you build an F4R Tconversion ? Is that a copy from Scoff ?
Ive choosen the F7R, imho better then the F4R.

---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

http://21toc.com/showthread.php?30283-small-(new)-project

the white clio is for sale, choosen another shell-type (lol)

 

[Haz]

nice dimma

how are you upping the fuel pressure to 12bar?
ok, maybe this is part of the misunderstanding. i'm a home tuner, not an engine builder. i've known scoff for years so he's happy to lend a part with new projects. i've asked his opinions while doing research, and will be doing some fabrication and mapping. its a budget build as the 11 is a long ongoing project that i ahve been restoring with big plans again with scoff's help. the more i spend the less i have for the 11 so dont want to be doing alot of testing parts. adaptronic would eat most of my budget so saving that for the 11. so an eprom in the std ecu is alot cheaper, even if not quite as smooth. the figures i ask for are so i have a rough idea of using what parts can acheive which results based on scoff's opinions on how i like my car to drive. it will be set up on rollers once a base map is configured.
nothing is wrong with 6500rpm, i just down want the power to tail off much earlier. 277 at the wheels is a good figure, for me to get that on a first attempt i doubt very much so i'll bear in mind i'll need some but for now i'll wait til they let go, no point extending the budget until then. i didn't know what parts prices where, or how easily availible the parts are until i joined. hopefully some of my cheap finds will work and give another option to owners, we'll see.
nope, no smartarse, just very interested in what the people around me are doing/testing/tuning and improvising with alot more expensive cars and parts but with many similar rules to acheive good results. admittedly quarter mile and dyno queen cars (we should get on well really ) what i dont know i'm keen to learn so may ask stupid questions, maybe it the way i try to understand how things should work in my head lol.
you are correct, i will be building an f4r once i've painted the shell. a copy of scoff's, a de-tuned version tho, 550bhp is far to crazy for road car.
each to their own i guess, i figured if the f4r makes more power std so should make more with same setups. thought scoff's engine was great at the 320bhp mark and tbh more than enough fo everyday use. if i copy should be reliable and fun. whats your preference for the f7r? if you asking that in a way as to why i dont just use your mentioned set up is that i want it to respond differently.
for example, on the piper 276 arrangment, whats the biggest turbo you have fitted, what was the biggest ex housing tested, where was the power band?
same simple questions for the other cams too really, unless the biggest turbo and housing was used for each test and just the cam/map where changed.

 

[danb]

I'm gonna ask a question. What is your budget?

 

[B.roadbandit]

He's not running at 12 bar, thats what the reg will go up to, 803's will start to lock out if you take the pressure to high and you need a serious pump to deliver the pressure and flow required = more cost.
Jo has allot of good info to offer and has put huge amount of hours into development on the 21, the 276 cam suggested is good, remember that these cars are heavy and need something a bit lower down or you could end up with something that feels really flat with a big surge of unusable power and have to start over with different parts = more cost.
I'm not saying don't do it, the more people who get involved in developing new parts the better, but if you want to keep the standard liners in then there are limitations to what you do, when i stripped my spare engine for a rebuild i dropped one of the original liners and it shattered like a china vase, they are very brittle and could cause an expensive rebuild just for the sake of an extra 2psi, not really worth it.
If you've got other projects to spend on then the best way to start is the way suggested, enjoy it for what it is and keep it on the road, you can always build a big power lump for the future, spend some time sourcing the bits you want to try and run it on an engine dyno till you get the results your after, then its just an engine swap and a final dynamic test of the maps when its on the road/rollers to make sure its safe.
Also, the turbo i'm using is a t3/t4E, 57 trim with an internal WG thats good for 400bhp of flow on a .63 cossie 3 bolt housing, running 20psi with no problems on boost control or spiking, do you really need an external WG ?

 

[MakeEverything]

I think your statement of maximum pressure needed some thought. As already proven, Jo has run 3 bar and im looking at a fair bit over your "Maximum" as well. From the sounds of it, you need to turn the project on its head and work out Budget, Objectives, Capabilities, and then design the system & Project from there. This way, youll not get confused or distracted by conversations like the one about the standard ECU on the previous pages. Thats what i did, though my project is somewhat err.... different to yours.

 

[Haz]

I'm gonna ask a question. What is your budget?

there isn't a figure, just the more thats spent means less for my 11. basically i wont be buying new off the shelf bits, ideally secondhand from aborted projects. stainless exhaust was ?100, exwg free, map sensor free, frt mount intercooler ?130, radiator ?30, injectors ?70, ecu socket and chip ?30, gasket set and belts, oil filter etc ?150?, cam ?150 tops and hoping for a turbo around ?200. also been in talks with tony about swapping cars now before i start, with the added bonus that he's very keen to see what i can do so has a knife edge crank and ported head which he's happy to do a deal with and possibly a few more bits.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 012 PM ----------

He's not running at 12 bar, thats what the reg will go up to, 803's will start to lock out if you take the pressure to high and you need a serious pump to deliver the pressure and flow required = more cost.
Jo has allot of good info to offer and has put huge amount of hours into development on the 21, the 276 cam suggested is good, remember that these cars are heavy and need something a bit lower down or you could end up with something that feels really flat with a big surge of unusable power and have to start over with different parts = more cost.
I'm not saying don't do it, the more people who get involved in developing new parts the better, but if you want to keep the standard liners in then there are limitations to what you do, when i stripped my spare engine for a rebuild i dropped one of the original liners and it shattered like a china vase, they are very brittle and could cause an expensive rebuild just for the sake of an extra 2psi, not really worth it.
If you've got other projects to spend on then the best way to start is the way suggested, enjoy it for what it is and keep it on the road, you can always build a big power lump for the future, spend some time sourcing the bits you want to try and run it on an engine dyno till you get the results your after, then its just an engine swap and a final dynamic test of the maps when its on the road/rollers to make sure its safe.
Also, the turbo i'm using is a t3/t4E, 57 trim with an internal WG thats good for 400bhp of flow on a .63 cossie 3 bolt housing, running 20psi with no problems on boost control or spiking, do you really need an external WG ?

so what is the 12bar regarding? usually a 3bar reg will do 3bar idle, 4bar and 1bar boost, 5bar at 2bar (assuming pump is up to the job. just wondered how 12bar was reached?
i'm sure jo has alot of good information, which is why i hjave asked alot of questions, but if you read the thread from the start you'll see that not alot of them have actually been answered. i'd be happy to use any upgraded bits like steel liners, but only once mine break or if a cheap set come up from a car being broken, i wont go new just yet so scoff will air on caution when mapping.
i've enjoyed driving it but due to the niggles and bored of 16psi on std engine i thought i'd upgrade a few bits, some better than oe items can be sourced for less than oe so no brainer really.
i have no access to an engine dyno so not an option, and i dont intend on constantly trying to improve, although could end up that way.
no i dont need an exwg, but if i source a cheaper turbo that doesn't have an internal gate then i'm prepared i thought the cossie housing was .48? the .63 is rs500 isn't it? that is a similar turbo to what i want to use tho, assuming your using the 276 cam, what revs do is start to make boost, hit full boost and power tail off?

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

I think your statement of maximum pressure needed some thought. As already proven, Jo has run 3 bar and im looking at a fair bit over your "Maximum" as well. From the sounds of it, you need to turn the project on its head and work out Budget, Objectives, Capabilities, and then design the system & Project from there. This way, youll not get confused or distracted by conversations like the one about the standard ECU on the previous pages. Thats what i did, though my project is somewhat err.... different to yours.

3bar on any engine is good going, but pointless if its out of its effeciency range at 2bar, making no extra power, just hotter inlet and exhaust temps.
2bar would be a nice aim, but due to not havin a big budget i'm not sure how far the std engine can be pushed regards mapping. its not planned to be a big project, just a few weeks of odd evenings, similar to yourself (i have seen your project thread, interesting build). i know roughly how its goin to be and what i'm after, just need alot more information to confirm it and i'm yet to get some details answers, but i'll keep asking and hopefully get there in the end