F878 SRX - a few changes

[Haz]

just no point goin mad on it, taking everythin to its limits and havin to change the lot, its just a budget experimental stage i'm at with it atm. lazy turbo so progressive up to decent boost thats all. i dont want to build a replica europa, just some old skool cheap and simple bolt on stuff, hopefully after as much info that people are happy to share, if i turn up some new research then others may benifit too

 

[-Jo-]

cheap and simple ? Does that exist ??? LOL

803's, FPR, Walbro GLS392, fmic, T34 (.4, 2.5" downpipe and exhaust , 2.5 or 3 bar mapsensor, pipercam or 280?/290? profile cam, bosian chip ( you need to ask Tony for that)

Voila, simple and still cheap

 

[Haz]

well its seems you always double the budget, i started low when i thought a quick gasket set n engine mounts, with other issues now the ic and rad, thats all i planned. but as i was looking for bits it seems universal items cost about the same as std parts so why not.
i have mentioned a chip to tony a while ago and he said he had a chipped unit, but never chased it up, i am concerned with chips tho, would be nice to see some tables although meters will be used for first few test runs. other stuff is to hand tho.
prob easier and cheaper to buy a similar spec car !

---------- Post added at 01:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

In theory. Snag is AFAIK noone has a decent basemap - the adaptronic has one .. but not the piggyback. I cant imagine a tuner would let you have one ...

ah great. scoff has access to alot of the main adaptronic stuff so cant see why the values cant be transfered across to the chip.

Jo will be along in the morning. He is usually most helpful. Might give Jo a better clue about what you need if you let him know what power figures you are chasing and delivery style you are after. For all I know you might be after 250bhp and want it all top end.

well not sure, i know how i want it to drive, i just have to figure out tried and tested methods as 250bhp at 4000revs aint 250 at 7000 revs is it lol. happy with 200bhp if it goes well.

It generally is over this side of the pond. Bigger turbo , injectors , FMIC and a dabble in adaptronic. Dave Sibley has been threatening us with a big build engine for ages. Rabson was getting there then B had her wicked way. Craig grew up . Amrit got ratarsed. Lee went all cosworth on us and erm , I sold up. Johnboy has a very good setup and some impressive figures to back it up.

just my luck, missed out on the trend as usual. shame alot of their finds aren't documented. glad there's a few still happy to help

 

[Haz]

well i've been onto kent and piper today. piper offer a regrind sevice but the guy on phone tells me he's not aware off doing one, a case of sending in my cam for a regrind but they have no record of specs so would have to measure up whats there to work out some specs and supply shims. no springs listed either but if i send one in they should be able to match one up too. kent guy remembers offering 2 specs in the past, 276 and 300 sound familiar to him but no details to hand so mailin them over soon. picking up a cossie .48 housing and elbow over the weekend and found my 3 bar map sensor. may start to take a few pics and get bits of the car if i get some time too.

 

[danb]

I'm in communication with Piper at the moment.. if you want in on a group buy?

 

[Haz]

ah cool, wnder why he didn't mention it. how far have you got with them? interested in a group buy but think they'd want to do a batch of the same spec so would depend on what you goin for.

 

[danb]

Im going for the 276 duration, which is what a lot of other members are using. tried and tested. good for 250-300 so thats fine by me.

have a look at my Silver quadra thread, over in the restorations and projects section.

 

[Tony]

Haz I have a couple of spare cams. If you wanna keep yours on the road.

 

[Haz]

great tony, thanks. dan i'll let ya kow once i've seen the specs if thats ok but something i'm lookin at doin it very soon

 

[-Jo-]

well i've been onto kent and piper today. piper offer a regrind sevice but the guy on phone tells me he's not aware off doing one, a case of sending in my cam for a regrind but they have no record of specs so would have to measure up whats there to work out some specs and supply shims.

dont know who you had spoken on the phone...

here you go:


tested at 1.2 bar: 276? vs 316? (575 cc injectors, 3 bar map and so on, both tested on the same specs and boostvalue), figures at the wheels. Whe calculate 12.5% transmission loses wich is not much but better then the usual pub figures (20 and more % drivetrain loses)



---------- Post added at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

funny to look at the old graph's, after my name (Jo21) stand the ammount on testruns. Counter stands now at 213, this graph from 2008 says 071 :lol:

 

[B.roadbandit]

When i called them they offered many different profiles, massive choice to pick from but was recommended the 276 with an option to vary the lift if requested.

 

[-Jo-]

Lift on the 276 is fine, almost the same as on the OEM cup cam with the diff that the cup has the 290/300? profile. Not possible to drive the cup cam without proper remap, same story with the 276 with the diff. that you can run it. Its gonna be lumpy, compleetly wrong and useless but it is possible.

As you can see in the graph, nice figures from the 276 at 1.2 bar (282/441 Nm atw). With some changes, 1.4 bar and ignition/fuel adjustment, you will achieve 290/473 atw. The 4 paddle + upgrade cover max out at 430/440 Nm atw.

 

[B.roadbandit]

Whats that in real measurements, is it around 350 ft/lb?

 

[-Jo-]

430 Nm= 317 lbft

473 atw= 540 fly = 395 lbft

1Nm=0.74 Lbft

 

[B.roadbandit]

So i was only off by + or- 40 ft/lb then, nothing really

 

[Haz]

i suppose thats what i gt when i can at half 4 on a friday is there any of the other specs availiable/ where can i find them? with the dyno map you've shown, what spec turbo was used? it looks like its a very responsive but it tails off too early? just to keep it basic, there's 2 cheap options the 276 and the 300, and the expense of the cup one. have you tries all 3? what varients of large turbo have you tested with them, and what boost have they been ran to and when did upping the boost made no difference (effeciency limit)?

well i've been making progress with other things too. i've sourced a 3" stainless exhaust from a sierra cosworth, turbo back inc lambda bung. may need to change one of the boxes but there should be plenty of pipe to be able to make it fit. a 35mm external wastegate, only a cheapy but not sure if i'll have to go up to a 38mm yet so will do for testing. a set of bosch 403's with a jubilee-on style 3bar reg. poss a std cosworth rad as cheaper than the ali one on ebay. i've also managed to get the use of an eprom/reader writer, although my map will be different to those availiable, hopefully some of them will be readable. also scoff tells me finding a supplier for the socket and eproms should be no problem and has managed to get an emulator for the renix so if it all works he should be able to do live mapping. soo,

what is different between the ecu's between phases and quadra's? is it just sensors or difference in wiring?
what 'brand' chips are there and to suit what engine spec/boost level?

also jo, just out of interest as well out of my budget but has anyone tried anything close to europa spec but managed to tune it on the renix unit? do the exhaust manifold/turbo/downpipe/wastegates come up for sale?

oh and now tony's thrown another idea into the mix, and is very tempting ! may have to change the thread title tho

 

[danb]

Phase 1/2 2wd are the same.
Quadra have 1st gear boost limiter removed.
Phase 3 if different due to coil pack.

 

[B.roadbandit]

How much power are you looking for?
External waste gates only become a necessity at high boost/flow levels, and the extra expense in a decent ex. mani and pipework/exhaust system mods can escalate rapidly.

 

[-Jo-]

regarding you're answer, tested many (to many) cams. High bhp's and torque are nice but try to find a compromise between a streetcar and racecar. Dont forget, the more pony's you want, the more you have to change arround the engine. Simple example, in my own set up i had to seem welded the subframe and weld plates in the mount -inserts. If you dont do that, the engine rips the entire baseplate out off the sub. It starts with a crack and ends with a piece off metal hanging on the engine mount. I'll prob. dont have to tell you this because scoff aint stupid and as far as i had a chat with him, he nows pretty well what hes doing.

Forget exwg and things like that if you're on a budget. Start with an upgrade turbo (T34-GT2871R-GT3071R), 3" downpipe and 2.5" exhaust. FORGET 3" systems all the way, thats BS ! I have no idea where owners getting that size but whe dont own 600 bhp supra's or similar. I had the scorpion system behind my 3" downpipe and thats only 2.25". I'm sure some owners will tell me that i'm full of it but none off them can proof the diff. Never seen a graph or something similar. Ive got the graph from rollers in Belgium, Holland and UK (FCS last year).

Again, what you need if you're on a budget: turbo, 3" downpipe, 276? piper, 803's, 3bar mapsensor, fpr, fmic, cold plugs, desent cooling.
Whe can write 25 pages on this matter but when there is a budget issue, this is what you need. And if Scoff got the emulator, he can map the std managment.

About you're question involving ecu's; ph1 and 2 can be switched, no prob. The only thing that doesnt work is the coilpack system. The pick up on the flywheel is diff and also the main connector that goes on the ecu got diff pins.

Cams tested: 276 piper, 300 cup, 280/290 cup replica, 285 cup replica, 316 rally (sodemo), 309 rally (bosian)

 

[Haz]

ok so long as ecu's stay matched up to the right engine, shouldn't be a problem when tuning then. great.
roadbandit, i still may keep the std manifold yet, just that i assumed larger turbos may have more choice with the non gated housings, depends what i get. the wg was bought by a friend who owes a few favours, an is surplus due to the route he ended up goin, so a freebie. as the sierra downpipe and exhaust will need 'some' tweeking its no extra bother to add the wg port. i already have a modified 172 exhaust manifold to take a turbo so i have a spare one, just got to see whats possible. no real target on bhp, more to get it to drive the way i want.
thanks jo, any info is appreciated, and i'm sure others will benefit. and if its on the forum to see, saves you getting asked twice lol.
regards the parts, wg - see above. the turbo's are the ones i have been looking at. the exhaust will be full 3" not because i'll be making enough power, because i have been offered a full system for a nice price so if i fit it all, then i can sell on my full 21 exhaust. no point having 2 half systems in the garage and puts some cash back into the budget but do you have any figures that include the exhaust gas temps/pressures on your higher boost set ups? the cheap ic and rad set-up on ebay may not be the best items, but alot better and cheaper than original items and are a closer than universl items, my rad looks like its falling to bits, the top ic rubbers have snapped and its started to rub and the lower one just looks tatty, besides i'll be blowing the caps of at 18psi so will need doin too lol.. i plan to use a 3bar regulator but the 803's cant be enough? i think i maxed them out at 21psi on my volvo engine? think i'm trying 403's first, althought it'll be a bit rough at idle should only see me running them at 80% max then.
ok regards the cam, which is my stumbling block at the moment, due to the budget a secondhand common one will be easier and cheaper than a regrind, but if i have to go that route then it would be nice to know some profiles.

maybe i should have started the thread with what i'm looking to get out of it since you've done most of research. i'm aiming for a std engine, stripped and checked, cleaned and fresh gaskets. cam with adjustable vernier while its in bits. thicker headgasket to allow an increase of boost as same ignition levels. i want it to start making boost about 3200-3500 but not on full boost til nearer 5000, come on cam about 4500 and pull to 6500-7000 max boost at 1.5bar(depending on fueling and detonation), bhp figures will be what they are. so what tried setups are similar?
looking at more widely availiable parts, like cosworths etc, to then be adapted rather than one of custom bits to keep prices down