Engine dont fire up

[perner]

Hello,

my car has been sitting in a garage over the winter and is now ready to be taken out to the street ones more. Just dropped in a fairly new, under a year old and newly charged, battery in the car and tried to start it up.

The startmotor tries to fire up the engine but nothing more happens. When I last drove the car, and in fact all last summer, it worked perfect.

The battery is testes OK, theres no leaks or anything from the car, it has just been sitting there for the entire winter, what can go wrong?

Please give me some pointers, I have an MOT coming up in a week...

Regards,
Per

 

[Banjo232232]

Immobiliser will have set. Hold down the central locking button on the key fob till you hear a beep. Should start after this.

 

[taipan]

I had a similar issue. Car sat for six weeks and still on original battery [smilie=icon_eek.gif]
Bought and fitted new bosch battery; starter motor turned but no engine firing.

This may sound a bit weird but when it happened once before I turned off anything that might be taking power from the battery - stereo, fan, sat nav, even the interior light.

With all these switched off it fired up after a couple of goes cranking it. Problem's never returned.

 

[perner]

I dont think it is the imobilizer, everytime it is activated the car wont even turn over. When disabled the car runs on the starter but nothing more.

Nothing thats taking any power is off, stereo and so on, even the fan.

Can this issue be if all the plugs have gasoline on them, like the engine have been flooded or something? Or can this be if the fuelpump is broken?

More suggestions on how to take action?

Regards,
Per

 

[Jamesv6]

I have read the fuel pump can become faulty if it is left for a long time not immersed in fuel. One of the more technical guys might confirm this?

 

[Missing Link]

Can you hear the fuel pump running for a few seconds when you turn the ignition on ? ( before you crank it )

The pump should run and then stop, This is the system bringing the fuel pressure up ready for when it fires.

If you don't hear this then it would point to a pump or wiring/ feed problem.

 

[perner]

I filled the car up with fuel the last thing I did before I took out the battery, full tank.

I dont know what a fuelpump sounds like but when turning the ignition on I hear a high pitch noise but it sounds like its coming from the throttlebody. Where is the fuelpump so I can listned closely?

Thanks,
Per

 

[Jamesv6]

The pump is inside the petrol tank. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11420

 

[k1ano]

Issues I have seen before can be caused by things flying around in the boot-space and knocking the relays and connectors. This happened to me once and has happened to Nas and also some others ... A dead give-away is no fuel system pressurisation or throttle initialisation when you turn the key. You can normally hear the fuel pump buzzing for a second or two aswell as the throttle body whirring away with the engine covers removed. If neither of these things happen it is likely a dislodged connector in the boot.

So ...

In the boot, remove the tool box from its cradle and carefully fold out the carpet from the left side of boot and expose the relays, fuses and ECU. Then re-seat any cables and relays, there is no need to remove them just make sure they are all seated correctly. This may solve your problem.

Martin

 

[perner]

The boot relays all sits tight in the spaces and every fuse is OK. I still dont hear the fuelpump, but then again, Ive never had so...

The spark plugs were dry but smelled of petrol, is this normal?

Can I plug in a computer/reader to the diagnostics port and read out codes? The engine light is NOT on.

Regards,
Per

 

[MattGWilson]

When I start my car up for the first time in a while, sometimes I don't hear the high pitched buzz. So I disengage the key and try again, eventually the noise will occur upon turning the ignition partially. You're then ready to turn the key fully. When you've turned the key fully and still nothing happens, just hold it there, it's taken up to a minute for mine to start turning over. If after two minutes with the key fully turned you still get nothing, it's time to try something else!

 

[k1ano]

It can only be broadly one of the following things really ...

Fuel system - fuel in tank, fuel lines connected, correct pressure at injectors & injectors working ... Not easy to diagnose but if you can smell fuel from the exhaust, or on the plugs then this is probably OK. Fuel pump can be heard energising and raising fuel pressure when the ignition is switched on - if you can't hear it then it's electrical or broken fuel pump ...
Ignition - spark plugs & coils working, electrical system working. Not all coils or spark plugs will go at once so if the car won't start it's not likely to be coils or spark plugs. Likely to actually be an electrical issue in this case ...
General Electrical - fuses, connections, relays etc. This IS easily possible ... If the fuel pump and throttle can be heard to work when the key is turned, that is a good sign. If one of these things doesn't happen, that could be your issue.
Starting - starter motor, solenoid, relays, battery etc. If the engine cranks this must be OK, if cranking doesn't happen it could be eletrical but a clicking solenoid or dimming lights might indicate a battery or starter motor issue ...
Static timing - cam-belt and adjustment, this is unlikely to have changed ...
Immobiliser - dash lights, headlights and general electricals will work fine but no noises or electrical action will occur engine and anciliary wise.

Just some food for thought ...

Martin

 

[Missing Link]

Buy the sound of it the pump is not turning, This can happen with it standing for a while, Just like sticky starter motors. ( Remember the give it a hit technique )

I've not long had mine and still not 100% about where everything is hidden but if you can get access to the tank and just give it a thump or two, Hopefully this will shock & move the armature on the pump motor and of you'll go.


This won't show a fault code as it's just a motor being fed a power feed by a relay, You should hear the fuel pump relay switch on and then off when keying on, If you can't hear this clicking over then the power wont be getting to the fuel pump.

The smell of petrol is normal and will be the remains that were in the fuel rail last time you switched it off, But it will be at a low pressure now( If at all with trying to start it ) so wont be high enough to fire it.

A quick way to rule it out would be a SMALL amount of easy start sprayed into the air box........ If she fires then you know it's a fuel problem and the vibration MIGHT shock the pump back into life if it is a sticky pump.

 

[perner]

Thanks for the info, Im going to try and look at everything in the weekend. I cant seem to find in the manuals where the fuelpump relay is?

Also is there a guide for how to get to the fuel pump?

Regards,
Per

 

[Steve-V6-D61]

Below is the changing the fuel filter info i posted before, but picture 4 shows the top of the fuel pump, the black ring secures the black fuel pump cage in the tank.

Spike did some posts on changing the pump, I think the Renault one is unavalialbe or the normal silly Renault price, I think spike had a alternative pump, your need to careful and confedent of what your doing, more if you have a full tank of fuel.

Stephen ( renaultalpine) is going to the factory next week he maybe able to get you a pump at a greatly reduced price if they have any.

Do forget to bleed the fuel pressure off first otherwise it will spray everywere, best to light a fag first :rofl:

Here some pic to help with the job of a fuel filter change.

you weill need a T20 torx bit to remove cover screws, there are hidden under the sound proofing which is stuck down, the no nice way of getting it off I used a flat paint scraper to get the main layer off, then dug about for the screws, this picture shows black squares were the screws are located, so you may only have to lift some of the sound proofing.

Get some spray glue to stick it all back down with.

with cover off you can not see filter its out of sight, look down and towards the front. you will see a grey handle that retais the filter on to the top of the tank.

Filter on view just press in green sections on fittings to release the filter

Stve F have Fun !

 

[perner]

Ive made som progress! Its seems to be something sorounding the fuel.

With startgas or what you call it in english, when spraying in the throttlebody the car starts for a few seconds then dies. The relay, yellow one, sounds like its clicks when ignition is on. BUT the fuelpump doesnt make a sound, I have even taken of the top lid so the fuel filter and cables are exposed.

But I cant figure out how to see the pump, some sort of ring sorounds the pump thing but it sits rock solid. Is there a way to take this of or can you see the pump in any other way?

Is there some way to get the pump started again, whats the best way if there is?

Thanks,
Per

 

[Jamesv6]

viewpost.php?p=107840&f=6

 

[Missing Link]

Give that ring part a good thump and get somebody to turn the key of and on at the same time. It might shock the pump into moving.

Again i've not seen one yet but the ring will twist onto a collar on the tank and hold the pump in place.

Ideally you would meter the voltage now going into the pump, If you have battery voltage AND a good earth return then it's looking like a knackered fuel pump.

 

[Spike]

have been here with this one, be careful if you try and remove the ring as they can break and is expensive, when you rotate the ring anti clock hold the white insert from rotating, if it rotates round it will rip the sender off the bottom of the unit (£450). try to power the pump up before removal with a direct feed to the unit, might save you some time. also i do have a spare pump for one of these which is not available seperately, if you need any more help, let me know or give me a ring, 0044 7889 153352, spike.

 

[perner]

We did a reading on the voltage of the cables. Readings on the fuel pump cables were all the time 0v exept for one connector who made 5v all the time, is this for the capacity reading to the dashboard (fuel left in tank)?

When we did the readings were the relay sits it showed a peak of around 10v the first 1-2 seconds after ignition with the key. Is this the signal for getting the fuel ready? This dropped then to 2V and were left there. Maybe its a bad relay for not sending this signal all the way to the pump?

What do you guys think? If it is, does the V6 share the realay with other cars (in other words, how hard is it to get and also what does it set you back?). It reads 77 00 844 253 on the relay cover.

Cheers,
Per