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Car use in future & V6

Harry's Metcalfe makes some good points on his YouTube channel, more around our co2 footprint which will be minimal, love it as he is 'justyfying' ownership and making some great points. My co2 footprint is probably less than Gretas and her cronies. My V6 is my pride and joy but probably do less than 1000 miles a year then get about on a push bike. I also briefly thought about an electric car but quickly realised its unfeasible as I live in a flat...

My issue is that we aren't the issue. Perhaps not a fair statement but realistically we aren't.

Amazing you are getting a Yaris GR Lankan! Reminds of the vee slightly, only thing I'm sad about is the fake exhaust note. Do you know if it can be switched off?
 
BREMBO":3rwmcc95 said:
Harry's Metcalfe makes some good points on his YouTube channel, more around our co2 footprint which will be minimal, love it as he is 'justyfying' ownership and making some great points. My co2 footprint is probably less than Gretas and her cronies. My V6 is my pride and joy but probably do less than 1000 miles a year then get about on a push bike. I also briefly thought about an electric car but quickly realised its unfeasible as I live in a flat...

My issue is that we aren't the issue. Perhaps not a fair statement but realistically we aren't.

Amazing you are getting a Yaris GR Lankan! Reminds of the vee slightly, only thing I'm sad about is the fake exhaust note. Do you know if it can be switched off?
Indeed, but don't forget that HM runs a farm, where all farm machinery is powered by diesel, so I guess he feels obliged to justify the use of fossil fuels in moderation, which is something I can relate to.

Since 2018, my CO2 footprint has been next to nothing since I now work from home, and am not required to travel on business, and use public transport to travel to London, if I need to be at the office. The years between 1999 and 2016 were the worst, where my CO2 footprint would have been sky high, but back then there wasn't the realisation (or evidence) that our travel patterns were causing harm to the environment. Heck, even diesel cars were being promoted as a means of reducing pollution, though I never subscribed to that theory, so never owned a diesel-powered vechicle of any sort.

As such, right now, to me, the use of a car is purely for pleasure, but we do need a runabout for local commuting, so can see ourselves acquiring a non-polluting vehicle for that type of use. An electrically powered car would fit the bill in this instance. However, I am also intrigued by hydrogen-powered vehicles, which is likely to address the 'range issue' that electric vehicles are hampered with. However, again hacing adequate infrastructure (i.e. H2 filling stations) will be required, and when manufacturers will build funs cars powered by hydrogen is another matter. Amongst others, Toyota has also released a hydrogen-powered car, the Mirai, but that is far from a fun car!

I have been following the GR Yaris since it broke cover in Jan 2020 and pre-ordered a Circuit Pack car as soon as order books opened in the UK in early March - my taking delivery was subject to an extended test drive, so zero risk. However, seeing the reviews, I think it will have to have some real issues if one is to not take delivery. Given the above, and much like the Vee, the GRY will be the last of its kind; a handbuilt, homologation special that has been reverse-engineered from a championship-winning rally car. It is a real pity that Toyota will no be able to run the GRY in next year's WRC since testing was heavily curtailed due to the pandemic, but the design and engineering that has gone into that car is quite remarkable. However, the final proof will be in the driving, which I am yet to experience. So far, I have only sat in a Euro-spec (LHD) pre-production model, and that had 2 issues; space between brake and accelerator pedal was too wide for comfortable H&T, and I would have liked the driver's seat to go lower.

The soundtrack is nowhere near that of the Clio V6 or an air-cooled flat 6 of a 911, which is probably why Toyota decided to artificially enhance the soundtrack via the interior speakers, which I too am not a fan of. I am not sure whether or not this can be turned off, but another annoying feature (iMT), that does the rev matching for you, can indeed be turned off. I am sure there will be aftermarket solutions for the exhaust (custom boxes) and also electronic switches to turn off 'Active Noise Control;', as Toyota so eloquently describe it...or at least I hope there will be.
 
Good choice Dulan.

I’ve been thinking about the same... but need deliberation before pulling the trigger.

I missed the opportunity when the demo visited Swansea dealership in September.

I’d like to know that it feels properly surefooted at Motorways speeds and that the gear change is snickerty. I also need to check the interior.
 
Kett":3rafovwl said:
Good choice Dulan.

I’ve been thinking about the same... but need deliberation before pulling the trigger.

I missed the opportunity when the demo visited Swansea dealership in September.

I’d like to know that it feels properly surefooted at Motorways speeds and that the gear change is snickerty. I also need to check the interior.
Indeed, Kett, I hope so....but from what I have seen and read so far, I think the GRY will be quite the car, and just what I was looking for.

Started off looking out for a Porsche GT4, but felt that it was the wrong time to get into one since there are those who upgraded from a 718 GTS to a 718 GT4 and either regretted it or they wanted to, and didn't go through with it since the difference wasn't stark in the real world - on-track performance is different. Once COVID hit, there was downward pressure on prices, which should be good for buyers, but ever since the GRY surfaced I found it difficult to justify a GT4.

I sat in a GRY pre-prod model in July, during its first preview tour. Not much interest at all back then so managed to spend around an hour crawling around the car, which was inside the dealership's showroom. These cars weren't road registered and were LHD variants, so not really representative of what we would get here in the UK. The equipment was also slightly different. Each customer was given a feedback form to fill out - my main feedback as about the spacing between the brake and accelerator pedal and that the driver's seat did not go low enough. Apart from that, to me, all else was okay for a car that would need to serve one purpose - to go around corners well, and be useable for touring/long journeys.

Gearshifts, whilst stationary, were good, better than both the Vee and the Exige, but not as slick as the S2000 (the best box I have experienced to date). Its a short-throw box, so the ratios should be well matched. In fact, reviews so far seemed to indicate that the gearshift is good, but in some videos, there appears to be a slight lunge when changing up at speed. Not sure whether this is a consequence of a bad shift or something else. In fact, the worst I saw was in a video where a German rally driver (2-time women's champion) was hustling a GRY circuit pack car along. This is something I am keen to check out during the test drive.

I don't think you will find cause for concern with a circuit pack car since the MPS 4S tyres are superb, in the dry, and also in damp and wet conditions. Having run MPSS tyres on [v6plaque]002[/v6plaque] now for several years, I will definitely go for MPS 4S when it is time to change. As regards the interior, well I don't think it matches up to the VAG standard, but that doesn't bother me. I can safely say that the GRY's interior is vastly superior to that of the Vee and the Exige S RGB. :)

I did a rough comparison of the performance characteristics of the 3 cars, and the outcome was quite interesting (see below). Safe to say that I will be happy with this combination and level of useable performance on public roads. For me, there is no need to get a faster car, that will invariably be heavier, longer, wider, or all three combined, and is likely to be expensive and also have high maintenance costs. If I was going to track it often, then upgraded (series 3) Exige would be the way forward, but to me, the Series 2 RGB (or the Scura, if one can find one) is the sweet spot

3a6b342a0a526aeecfcb3a85b4840d3d.jpg


As such, IMO, at just under £35K, the GR Yaris Circuit Pack is really good value when you take into consideration its design, engineering, the level of testing and fine-tuning it went through, and the whole bespoke nature of the project. Only the front and rear light clusters, side mirrors and the sharkfin antenna were carried over from the regular (5-door) Yaris. Further, one gets a 5-year/100,000-mile warranty, and the servicing intervals are every 10,000 miles or 12 months. Of course, not being a daily driver, that doesn't really bother me, but it makes a good case for those who are looking to use it every day, and in all weathers. I think GRY will be an excellent all-weather car.
 
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Thank you Dulan.

I’m using a manual Golf R for daily runabouts and I’ve been very happy with it... except for the gear shift. I even bought a Mountune billet short shifter to improve matters, but it still sucks.

It was really nice to return to the hot hatch fold and the R is incredibly capable. It suits the DSG better and the Mk8 will only be available in that format. I prefer a manual shift though and the GR Yaris fits the bill (as does the toned-down Civic Type R) when considering a new replacement. The prices are very similar... but the GR has my attention.

Remarkably, I have a Toyota dealership in my little town too...
 
Kett":ggmxa8u9 said:
Thank you Dulan.

I’m using a manual Golf R for daily runabouts and I’ve been very happy with it... except for the gear shift. I even bought a Mountune billet short shifter to improve matters, but it still sucks.

It was really nice to return to the hot hatch fold and the R is incredibly capable. It suits the DSG better and the Mk8 will only be available in that format. I prefer a manual shift though and the GR Yaris fits the bill (as does the toned-down Civic Type R) when considering a new replacement. The prices are very similar... but the GR has my attention.

Remarkably, I have a Toyota dealership in my little town too...
Interesting to hear that the Golf R manual shift is pants. I was never into VWs so cannot relate to the exception you have with its gearshift. Is it simply the throw rather than the ratios, or a combination of the two?

To me, the GRY, with its 30/70 bias in Sport mode, was an easy pick since I don't gel well with FWD cars, which was one of the reasons why the 182 Trophy had to go. The Civic Type R is rather good, but jeez that styling, but according to Honda, every fin, duct and canard one sees has a purpose - wish it was more aesthetically pleasing to the eye though...

Good luck in your hunt, whatever you decide, but do try to get a test drive in a GRY circuit pack car since there will be a marked difference due to the tyres and the lighter forged alloys on the CP car.
 
No, with respect, I think that you are all missing my original point.

In the near future [and, now, probably even more near] the use of ANY fossil fuel car [especially something so ridiculous/frivolous as a V6] will be considered TOTALLY unacceptable and irresponsible, if it is not actually illegal. You may even feel too frightened to be seen it such a thing - and too scared of reprisals from the haters.

This goes also for shows and motorsport - it is all just too easy a target for the greens and do-gooders.
 
Someone with millions to spend paying fines will have a nice auto museum.
I remember when I set up a club for owners of very special petrol car! That turned into an investment website for cherished undriven ornaments. ;)
 
....and that is exactly why I parted company with [v6plaque]314[/v6plaque], and a few others, and acquired a couple of cars that I can drive and enjoy over the 10 years or so that we have to appreciate real driver's cars.

[mention=343,#000000]Kett[/mention], I think all your questions are answered in this review, and anyone else who is interested, this is one of the reasons I chose to jump into a GR Yaris Circuit Pack: NEW Toyota GR Yaris! First Drive Review

I think we have at most 10 years to enjoy our fossil-fuelled cars with the freedom we have today, and that is what I intend to do...
 
100% agree on track pack option. I quite like ‘poverty spec’ white though. Have you gone for an exotic colour?
 
Kett":22gy7hc2 said:
100% agree on track pack option. I quite like ‘poverty spec’ white though. Have you gone for an exotic colour?
Colour is not something I revered that much, but I did go for Platinum Pearl White, as it is very similar to the Exige S RGB's Aspen White.

I really wasn't fussed about the colour, but I think I would have stayed away from black as I know how difficult it is to keep
clean, and looking decent, which I am sure any owner of a BG Vee can relate to - the solid black 993RS was enough for me to never have another black car.
 
Dulan, do you have any indication of the proposed production numbers?

I’ve read conflicting reports...
 
mehere":2ftimppq said:
No, with respect, I think that you are all missing my original point.

In the near future [and, now, probably even more near] the use of ANY fossil fuel car [especially something so ridiculous/frivolous as a V6] will be considered TOTALLY unacceptable and irresponsible, if it is not actually illegal. You may even feel too frightened to be seen it such a thing - and too scared of reprisals from the haters.

This goes also for shows and motorsport - it is all just too easy a target for the greens and do-gooders.

Getting back on track.....

I like to think we have a good few years before IC vehicles are forced from the roads . Government making sweeping statements and putting everything behind an electric future seems very blinkered. Most of us know the infrastructure and generating capacity will fall short and to ignore the huge advances in IC efficiency seems crazy to me. The greens among us may dream but I suspect that getting us to give up our current transport will meet strong opposition at some point. I for one hope to see out my driving years in vehicles of my choice although I can only hope to have the necessary income required for the ever increasing taxes on older vehicles.....oh and to pay the road tolls that are coming, the electric brigade will be responsible for that....
 
I think that you’re absolutely right Ed, we have quite a few years to go yet before petrol stations start to close down due to lack of demand! That’s probably 15 plus yers to still enjoy our cars, out in the countryside at least.

The modern phenomenon of having classics and modern classics as investments will certainly be killed off a long time before that though, and if anyone is sitting on an old car to make money then you should probably cash in now! I have a garage full of classics, but they provide me with a lot of fun restoring, fettling and driving, so they won’t be going anywhere.

I spent 3 years a while back on a team designing the businesses, systems and infrastructure for a National Road pricing scheme for central government. The issues of phasing out fossil fuelled car were one of the principal drivers for this initiative, or rather, the loss of revenue from fuel tax was.

One of the main benefits of a new pay-by-the-mile system is to be able to change behaviour of society by being able to vary the charge by weight of vehicle, emissions, time of day, usage suitability and road traffic density.

You won’t need a crude system like the London Ultra-Low emission zone, or the planned banning of fossil fuel cars by many cities including Bath and Oxford. Instead you can vary the price per mile depending on vehicle characteristics, time of day and location.

For example, living in the countryside with a registered farm and running a LandRover Discovery, you could be charged at 30 pence per mile on the country roads, 60p per mile in built up areas. Living in Chelsea with an Audi Q8 that never leaves central London, £20 per mile may by more appropriate.

As fossil fuel cars are phased out, government will help their departure by slowly increasing the per-mile charge on such cars. This can be a considerable hike in the case of the Q8 in Chelsea, and perhaps a very modest increase in the more eco-friendly fossil fuel cars until viable and economical EVs become available. And you can bet that’s going to happen quite soon with some of the Asian manufacturers spending a lot of money to develop the sub-£10k electric car.

Interestingly, the subject of classic cars came up in a couple of ministerial meetings I attended, with them being seen a something to treat differently to everyday cars (for several reasons!)

The solution came down to the owners having a couple of options……either tax (per mile) your car like an everyday car, which would attract eye-watering costs per mile due to emissions, or tax it as a ‘classic’. That would limit you to a certain number of miles per year, and with different pricing strategy per road section, encouraging you to stay away from built up areas.

Or you may just want to trailer your old classic to the track a few times a year.

Bottom line guys is that this isn’t some new fad that government are bringing in. It has been planned for well over 20 years now, and they have fully costed designs sitting in the wings waiting to be refined and funded, that can be rolled out in a few years time.

So don’t waste your time thinking about the investment potential of your classic….go and enjoy the bloody thing now!
 
James":1ejsnkqq said:
Someone with millions to spend paying fines will have a nice auto museum.
I remember when I set up a club for owners of very special petrol car! That turned into an investment website for cherished undriven ornaments. ;)

Don't include me in this statement! I like to think I use mine enthusiastically enough to make up for the garage queens!
 
James":3sksh99i said:
Someone with millions to spend paying fines will have a nice auto museum.
I remember when I set up a club for owners of very special petrol car! That turned into an investment website for cherished undriven ornaments. ;)


:rofl: It hasn't done anything of the sort though has it!
You set up a section to "talk about values" and it only has 4 posts in it - 2 of which were from you.

So in fact this website is still very much for owners who enjoy their cars in whatever way they chose to, including driving them as witnessed by all the other thousands of posts ;)
 
James":2jzevwiz said:
There were many more posts on the values facebook group. :rofl:

but you weren't talking about Facebook you were having a dig at people here in that post above so maybe go make comments like that on Facebook ;)
 
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