19 1991 Hatch 1.4 EJ6 - 5th Gear popping out

[Venerable19]

Hi,
Old Retro-Renault member here. I have the above model and it has just started to jump out of 5th gear (I dunno, its only done 345,000 miles..). Symptoms are:-
Shift into 5th - fine
Drive at steady speed in 5th - fine
Lift off accelerator in 5th - fine
re-apply accelerator in 5th - pops into neutral
If you keep your hand on it you feel a very discernible 'thunk' trying to push it back into Neutral as you re-apply the accelerator. I'm guessing its a major gearbox issue, just wanted some confirmation and whether it can be fixed if you take out the box etc..? Any advice really...
Thanks
David

 

[Red21]

Not necessarily a gearbox issue, it could be linkage related.
At that sort of mileage I would first check the engine mount on the RH front and LH gearbox mount then the mount at the rear of the box.
Then check the actual gear change rod for worn bushes at the base of the lever and the short lever at the box end.
If these are OK you can dismantle the 5th gear carefully and inspect the selector fork, rod and the actual gear dogs which should not be rounded (magnifying glass is best used)
You can also gauge the general condition of the box as metal bits can gather in the 5th gear cap.
There use to be a rebuild kit for the 5th gear.

 

[DaveL485]

I dunno, its only done 345,000 miles

Impressive for a 19!

Nothing more to add to the as-always comprehensive and sensible advice from Rich

 

[Venerable19]

Thanks, Red21, I'll give it a good go-over on Saturday when I get it back from No 1 son who's using it in London. I would truly love it to be linkage related and not the box, so fingers crossed - really want to keep this beast running if poss

 

[C1JF7P]

Hi Venerable19, I'm catching you up (260k)!

I agree with everything Red21 posted, but would add that I had the same thing happen with my 11 turbo. One of the shaft bearings (I forget which one) had spun in the casing (5th gear end), and the retaining circlip cut its way through, allowing the shaft enough end-float to knock it out of gear. A casing salvaged from a box with a blown diff solved the problem.

I'll keep my fingers crossed it's linkage /mounting related, though.

 

[|sAs|]

I had a 19 which did this. The 5th gear nut had become loose and eventually the 5th gear fell of and locked the gearbox in the tin housing.
First step for you should be to lift the car up high on the passenger side and remove the tin housing and tighten the 5th gear nut along with some loctite. Beware that gearbox oil can flow out that way, hence why you should lift it high and prepare with a container.

 

[Red21]

I had a 19 which did this. The 5th gear nut had become loose and eventually the 5th gear fell of and locked the gearbox in the tin housing.
First step for you should be to lift the car up high on the passenger side and remove the tin housing and tighten the 5th gear nut along with some loctite. Beware that gearbox oil can flow out that way, hence why you should lift it high and prepare with a container.

This where the fifth gear repair kit came in to play as it had all the bits for a repair and modification providing no major damage.

 

[Red21]

Had a look at the old Tech Notes related to 5th and unfortunately the kit is NLA which isn't surprising as the parts have subsequently replaced by individual parts as th J box has evolved over the years.

 

[Venerable19]

Thanks, C1JF7P and |sAs|, I'll add that to the investigation and appreciate the tip about oil spillage - driveway is a mess as it is...car leaks a bit normally unfortunately.
Shame about the repair kit, Red21, ta for looking though..

 

[|sAs|]

Had a look at the old Tech Notes related to 5th and unfortunately the kit is NLA which isn't surprising as the parts have subsequently replaced by individual parts as th J box has evolved over the years.

What did the repair kit include?

 

[Red21]

The kit contained both gears, synco ring & spring retainer(s) circlips, selector fork. And depending on serial number needle roller bearings but all kits contained the modified end nut or bolt, shims and the large O ring seal for the end cap.
Another kit that addressed 5th gear lubrication which was an additional to the above kit contained a new end cap and channel but required a box strip to change the channel so always ended in a full rebuild or box replacement.

 

[|sAs|]

Good info! Thanks!

 

[Venerable19]

Hi,
Its definitely the gearbox - probably the 5th gear syncro. I've been trawling around online and found a 19 'box part no JB1 138, my box is JB1 025 - any chance the new one will work with my E6j engine..?
Thanks

 

[|sAs|]

Yes it will. It might have different gear ratios though.

 

[Venerable19]

Thanks, |sAs|, I'm not too bothered about different ratios, so that sounds good. I've actually had a closer look at the engine mounts tonight as per Red21's post above and I think one of them has a big split in it - I might look at replacing that first before going for a replacement box. Back off to ebay again...

 

[|sAs|]

Do that.

If you need to source another box, just make sure that it doesn't come from a diesel car, those boxes can have very different ratios compared to the other ones.

 

[C1JF7P]

I'd replace that mounting as a matter of course, if I were you.

I could be wrong, but I think the JB1 138 box is for a Clio 1.2 8v, so I wouldn't expect the ratios to be wildly different.

 

[Venerable19]

Thanks, again, guys, I really appreciate your time on this one, I'm lining up the engine mount work for the break next week - fingers crossed - will let you know how it goes...no 1 son wants it back the following week - wish he had some idea about all this hassle I go through..(sigh)

 

[Venerable19]

Success..! Replaced the front engine mount (with the split) and no more jumping out of gear..! That's a relief, so a really big thank you for all your assistance.
Now to get it past the MOT at the end of Jan..!

 

[C1JF7P]

That is good news! I'll keep my fingers crossed you get it through the MOT easily and cheaply.