Uprated brakes......Who would be interested?

[Brett]

As you guys know, my car is in bits and receiving a fair bit more poke. Because of that, I am uprating the the brakes for good measure. Up front, disks will be 345mm and use 6 Pot Porsche/Audi/VW calipers and the rears will keep the standard disks but with 4 pot calipers matched to the front. This set up will only work on 18" wheels.
Call me selfish but I'm trying to reduce the cost of my build where ever I can so was wondering if any of you guys would be in on it too. Call it a small group buy if you must. This would mean the caliper refurbs, pads, disks, brackets and lines will all take drop in price. I for one never once had a problem with the original setup so assume next to nobody will but thought I best ask.

I'm not sure regarding the price as it stands but I reckon I'll be looking at between £6-700 for HUGE stopping power.

 

[Lankan]

Must say that the Vee's brakes are superb in standard form, and certainly more than enough for fast road use. The upgrade you are proposing would make them more than enough for heavy track use as well. What pads are you hoping to run?

 

[Brett]

I have yet to look in depth into pad choice but Brembo, EBC, mintex etc etc all do their own design for the calipers I'll be using (18z's).

 

[taipan]

Assuming grooved or crossdrilled, I'm in Brett either way - GB or not. Can never have too much stopping power!! Not a massive fan of the look of the OEM set-up and I was astounded at the Mov'its abilities, once I'd learnt how to use them!!

Let me know more on the set-up when you have the details. :approve:

 

[hualpa_jo]

Will need all new brakes soon anyway so this would be a great opportunity! Also I'm looking for a reason to not go back to 17" ever since so... Looking forward to hear/see some more details.

Must say that the Vee's brakes are superb in standard form, and certainly more than enough for fast road use. The upgrade you are proposing would make them more than enough for heavy track use as well.

Actually you are right but still I managed to bring the disks to the temperature limit on the track although I was told I wasn't even hard on the brakes. I have to admit though it took more than half an hour non-stop pushing and don't ask me how the engine felt about that... :s

 

[Brett]

Ok guys, well some interest is better than none. I know I'm not giving much info away at the moment but I'm yet to mock these Brembo's up myself. If push came to shove there is the option of using the smaller VAG 17z calipers that use 330mmx32mm disks but wouldn't offer much in the way of better stopping power. Maybe a slightly bigger pad area but that's it.

 

[looch]

I might be interested here mate!Love a bit of breakage

 

[Brett]

Ok, little bit more info. The discs will be Merc Ml 500 equipment. They will be 350mmx32mm. There is a 1mm difference in offset between the original Renault/AP discs and the Merc's so this is a great starting point in my opinion. Prices start at around 150 quid for them and go up to around 500 for the full bells and whistles. I will have these redrilled to match our stud pattern. Calipers are likely to be around 350 to 400 quid plus a refurb and paint if need be.

 

[taipan]

Boo. Not grooved/cross drilled. Would ML AMG brakes not fit? Diameter issues? What's the largest diameter that could fit under the 18" wheel? Mov'its were 380mm under an 18" wheel. Just, looking at the 2010 GB of grooved and dimpled discs they all still look puny when fitted!

Wanting rid of the OEM smooth disc surface really. Probably the worst reason ever to spend money on bigger brakes!!

 

[Brett]

There are a few grooved and drilled options Jon. Awsome stock some of the cheaper type I think. If push came to shove its not hard for a machine shop to groove or drill a set.

380mm discs could be too big in my opinion Jon. We are only running around on road tyres (with no weight above them). Last thing we want is the ABS cutting on all the while.

 

[hualpa_jo]

When talking about the ABS: Has anyone full understanding of the OEM brake circuit? As far as I know the ABS (Bosch 5.3?) has EBD capabilities (no doubts) and there is a brake pressure limiter (sounds strange to me but the piece is there). I know it depends on many things but whenever the ABS cuts in it made me feel like the front slips away (=understeer). And using the handbrake for a hard stop (only tested on straights) made the car stop a fair bit harder without the (disengaged) rear wheels to lock up. So has anybody ever thought about modifying brake pressure distribution and/or even mad attempts to modify the brake balance?

To me this setup seems a bit too much optimized for security and I expect bigger front brakes to even amplify this effect. Have you such thoughts as well Brett? Is this why you suggest a rear calliper with increased piston area to cancel this out?

 

[Brett]

Has an Have you such thoughts as well Brett? Is this why you suggest a rear calliper with increased piston area to cancel this out?

Correct. This is exactly why I suggest upgrading the rears too. Atleast this way the front and back brake outputs go up in a linear sort of way. However, for about a year I drove my car with no abs what so ever. I'm pretty convinced that there isn't actuall that much effort forced to the rear. This is why I see no real problem upgrading the fronts alone. No different to any other upgrade to anyother type of model.

 

[Brett]

Has an Have you such thoughts as well Brett? Is this why you suggest a rear calliper with increased piston area to cancel this out?

Correct. This is exactly why I suggest upgrading the rears too. Atleast this way the front and back brake outputs go up in a linear sort of way. However, for about a year I drove my car with no abs what so ever. I'm pretty convinced that there isn't actuall that much effort forced to the rear. This is why I see no real problem upgrading the fronts alone. No different to any other upgrade to anyother type of model/make of car.

 

[hualpa_jo]

That's what I thought...

However, for about a year I drove my car with no abs what so ever. I'm pretty convinced that there isn't actuall that much effort forced to the rear.

I did so as well by removing the fuse because I wanted to know how it really is because according to Renault this must be super dangerous and spins must be expected at any time. However I was a bit disappointed. In every non-ABS car I have test driven so far I managed to lock up all 4 wheels whereas the vee never even showed any tendency to lock the rear wheels. This and the fact that handbrake use increases stopping power without locking the wheels makes me come to the conclusion that there could be more brake force/pressure on the rear brakes! Am I alone thinking this or is it what you are saying in the last sentence of the quote because I don't really understand that particular one (sorry, non native speaker)?

 

[Brett]

Yes you could give the rear more braking effort but I wouldn't advise it. Renault must have done a lot of research and development regarding the braking system on the clio v6 so I'd only be comfortable increasing either just the front or the entire braking system as a whole.
I know a fair few people who have put motorbike engines, honda vtec's etc etc in the back of classic mini and tuning the braking system was criticle. Adding too much to the back made them very unstable and scetchy especially as there was an increase in weight from the front seats back.

 

[taipan]

Would the effect be similar to emergency stopping a heavy front engined car from 100+ with that squirming you get? I guess if so you can adjust with the steering to compensate but with the Vee you'd be a passenger.

Just trying to put it in simple terms for my simple brain!!

 

[taipan]

380mm discs could be too big in my opinion Jon. We are only running around on road tyres (with no weight above them). Last thing we want is the ABS cutting on all the while.

380 looked immense under the Audi rim but I agree re the weight above issues. Stock is 300 x 30 right? Or is it 330 x 30? Whichever 350 sounds like a good compromise between performance and 'look'.

Will have a chat with Ben re his AP set-up. Basic I want larger brakes (discs and pad surface area) all round with cross drilled discs.

 

[Nabs0000]

Hi Brett, I might be interested as well but it will all depend on the exact price you can get them for. I will need new brake discs on my vee in a couple of months so could be an interesting project.

 

[Jonny]

Hey mate, I could be interested depending on set-up and cost also as my brakes are due an upgrade.

 

[Ali]

I'd be interested. But certainly not in cutting corners...If it costs 2-3k, it costs 2-3k...Brakes are kind of important.