5 Turbo 1 and 2 Turbo re-build or replace

[jamesc]

Howdy folks

Those of you at the RS tuning rolling road day may have notice a little bit of blue smoke on overrun from Bougie, possibly meaning the turbo could do with a re-build? it's the oil cooled T3, which was cutting edge 30 years ago:


There's next to nowt on the net about uprated turbos for these cars...in English anyway....so I guess I need to be looking at a re-build/hybrid?? I'm not really looking to go larger...it has plenty of lag already!!

Can anyone recommend somewhere to get this kind of work done, or alternatively an uprated item? Below is one build I found:

http://www.renaultalpine.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7047

Only info given is:
The T3 turbo required a rebuild so we decided to go for a larger billet compressor wheel, -34 actuator, 360 degree bearing new turbine and shaft and a larger .48 turbine housing which was flowed and polished.

Any comments would be appreciated

 

[jamesc]

Yep carbon seal needed on compressor side. Get the current blower rebuilt for now then go efi in the future like we were talking about at rs tuning. You could prob do a nice bolt on conversion with minimal mods incase you want to go back to stock, no problem with turbo upgrades, fuel economy, power gain etc

I love to think I could get the K-Jet running cock on but eventually an EFI mightjust be the way to go, I'm interested in DIY mapping / data logging. Maybe this kit could be adapted.....

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=276

Good point about making it bolt on. For the purists out there

 

[r5gordini]

Regarding the carbon seal, apparently it is there to stop oil being sucked into the engine under vacuum when the throttle plate is closed. However, from my authority on all things R5 Turbo:
If the shop is rebuilding the turbo, it can be modified to take a more modern seal, or the parts kit will incorporate a more modern seal that should not smoke.
Hope that's helpful...

 

[DaveL485]

But....modern seals are metal rings so I wouldn't have thought it would be too much of an issue?

James, just deliver the car to EFI Parts, tell him to fit it and map it. You can learn from there, it's what I did including upgrading from a 420c to 420d once it was fitted in place. Starting from "noob" just isnt worth the hassle.
If you wanna fiddle with an Adaptronic prior to purchase drop by and have a mess with mine, try some data logging etc. Happy to let you mess with it cos my map is backed up and I can fix anything you feck up in 2 seconds flat. Its very interesting, and reasonably easy to learn. My particular favourite is finding out that certain isolated points on the ignition map are only reached off throttle on overrun, thus meaning I could mess with the timing to get big explosions out the exhaust on demand. Oh and startline boost build too, thats pretty cool.

 

[jamesc]

Dave, that is seriously tempting.....it that Scoff's place? I'll give them a shout for a natter. Thanks very much for the offer of having a go I will take you up on that one day. The ability to belch flames on demand is something I aspire to. At the moment all I can manage is to fart blue smoke..hence this thread...

So, after about a million phone calls this is where I got to:

Owen Developments & Turbo Technics
Nope.....both said nothing available but bring the car/turbo in so we can have a look. No comment....maybe I just talked to the wrong guys.

Turbo Dynamics
Much better response, the guy mentioned that they can pick up the turbo for 18 quid, which I thought was pretty good, saves me getting dressed.

I mentioned my proposed spec for the work I wanted/a hybrid:

Rebuild
360 thrust bearing
Larger compressor of some sort (up from 45 trim)
Billet wheel + balance
10% cut back for turbine

TD said that cut back was a waste of time really for what I wanted - looking for more response not really big numbers. Pricewise that would come to about 400 quid plus VAT including collection. BUT they weren't 100% about getting the parts.

Bernie's Blowers
Bernie is a top man and was very helpful in confirming the spec above & giving me a (slightly cheaper) price for each part of the work. His comments were in line with TD, cutback not really necessary.

[I love it when traders say that work isn't necessary, gives me confidence they aren't out to rip me off]

He was saying that the billet wheel could be installed in the existing housing by machining it out to accept larger wheel e.g. 60 trim. Did I understand correct?...sounds like a plan.

JL Engineering
John of JL Engineering also nice guy...as per his T2 engine build thread he provided a turbo for a customer's T2 with a similar spec to my list above, however with a larger turbine housing. I'd love to think that John would be able to do an engine for me one day.

To sum up: I think I'll go for Bernies proposal, so the final unit should be:

360 thrust bearing
60 tim compressor
0.36 turbine housing (stock)
Billet wheel

rebuilt/balanced of course....I'll make sure I mention the seal on the inlet side/drawthrough set up just in case.

I really really appreciate the comments guys, thank you, it's a learning process...!

 

[andybond]

Unusual for Owen Developments . they do some pretty good stuff normally.

Glad you are getting it sorted though

 

[DaveL485]

I'll drop you a PM about the Adaptronic

 

[jamesc]

Unusual for Owen Developments . they do some pretty good stuff normally.

Glad you are getting it sorted though

No doubt mate, I know they are capable, but to them I'm just some wanker with a 30 year old turbo. Their experience is with more modern stuff I guess

I'll drop you a PM about the Adaptronic

 

[DaveL485]

 

[read6737]

I have been recomended here by my Renault mechanic.
http://www.arturbo.co.uk/contact.asp
Had a chat with them about my T3 and fitting
360 bearings and double seals that Turbo Tec had said do.
( my mechinic wont use them, had too many problems )
His advice was
No need if you are not upping the power.
T3s are good turbos,
and if used in a non standard situation there is no garente
Liked his advice and way of explaining.
All 3 of my T3s are going there one by one.
Most important is to talk to who ever you are planning using and tell them everything you are planning to do
with the car.

 

[jamesc]

I have been recomended here by my Renault mechanic.
http://www.arturbo.co.uk/contact.asp
Had a chat with them about my T3 and fitting
360 bearings and double seals that Turbo Tec had said do.
( my mechinic wont use them, had too many problems )
His advice was
No need if you are not upping the power.
T3s are good turbos,
and if used in a non standard situation there is no garente
Liked his advice and way of explaining.
All 3 of my T3s are going there one by one.
Most important is to talk to who ever you are planning using and tell them everything you are planning to do
with the car.

Thank you Read I will call them

 

[smart5]

Mr Law has asked me before to lend him a tool to be used on a turbo 2 engine I would say that rebuilding an engine is well within the remit of any capable Renault 5 guy. the only real sticking point is getting the cam bearings fitted, as the old ones need removing (not so hard), then the new ones need pressing in and the oil holes then need drilling in them and the open hole at the top of head refilling with lead....everything else is the same as a gt turbo....

 

[Brucieboy]

You need to speak to Matt at Owen Developments as he sorted a T3 with modern internals for Gavin Allison to fit to his friends 5 turbo. Carbon seal, billet wheel etc. Was very responsive afterwards.