TTV Flywheel now Gearbox worries?

[idefix]

After major work on the car and a couple of additions:
TTV Flywheel
Ph1 Clutch
New Slave-Cylinder
New Input-Shaft-Bearing

I was prepared for new noises coming from the gearbox because of the TTV flywheel.
But...is it really that loud?? [smilie=icon_eek.gif] [smilie=icon_eek.gif]

[youtube]DD7XgRtdHIo[/youtube]

It shifts fine through all gears and makes a hell lot of fun with the TTV (emptied a full tank of fuel this morning )
But it sounds sooo unhealthy, those videos just don't represent how loud it really is.

You can hear this grinding sound clearly when cruising in the low revs from 1000-2000rpm (at around 42sec in the video) in all gears,


Ideas? Normal? Nothing to worry about? Just keep the revs over 2000rpm? [cmilie=iconcheers.gif]
Maybe i'm just a Sissy at the moment :rollseyes: iolin:


Edited for some extra information:
There is a grinding noise coming from the gearbox when the car is on idle. As soon as i push down the clutchpedal, its gone.
Also, when reving on idle with my foot meters away from the clutchpedal, you can hear that there is an rattling, additional to the enginenoise.
Doing this with my foot pushing down the clutchpedal -> no rattling

The vee already did this before the flywheel was fitted (it just wasnt that clearly audible)....well that's why the slave-cylinder and the input-shaft-bearing was replaced. :s


Normal Flywheel Chatter???

 

[matt.v10]

Sounds like a rally car....!!! [smilie=icon_eek.gif]

Edited to add: after further listening it sounds like its ripping itself to pieces :tumble:

I have spoken to a few guys who have this mod and they mentioned a wire wool scraping sound... perhaps yours is louder than their's! I'll be interested to hear what the others say.

What exhaust do you have fitted?

 

[R5turbo2]

I have one fitted once the clutch is released there is no sound

 

[idefix]

Yes, definately, there is this kind of "wire wool scraping sound"
The first time i lift the clutch i totally understood what the guys were talking about....i must admit i kinda like it

But then there is all this other grinding, ripping, rattling i'm hearing from the gearbox now?



It's the OEM exhaust btw

 

[matt.v10]

The exhaust sounds good! my standard phase 2 sounds like a hair dryer.

 

[idefix]

watch first post

 

[Ali]

Ask Rustedandrotten he's just had his done and mines about to go down....

 

[matt.v10]

Pete H and Dulan have also had this done. No complaints from either of them

 

[idefix]

Hmmm...i don't know yet if i am complaining about it.
I'm just feeling a little bit unsure at the moment if there is something to worry about?

I spent some time watching youtube videos...judging by
this (2:21 shows exacty what i tested today)
video...everything is fine???

+ I found this post in a Porsche 996 Turbo Forum, the opening question was almost identical to mine:

My money is on normal. What you are hearing is the front diff and cardan shaft. Sounds like gearbox but it ain't. Where they marry together there is some play - even when new (in my case - I was back and forth to dealer about this). When you lug the engine they resonate. To test; drive in 5th/6th and lug the engine at 2K - in this range it is most notable. Once at 2.5-3K if it goes away, there you go. As I was making such a fuss with a dealer, I received a letter from Porsche Stuttgart confirming this is normal.

LINK


Just waiting for the opinions from the other guys with this mod now

 

[Duncan]

Sounds like a loud phase one clutch in that vid.

Standard phase one makes that noise at very low revs in first or second gear at car park speeds. Have been in a ph2 with ph1 clutch and the TV flywheel and it also made that noise.

It sounds louder and more pronounced in your video, but that might just be audio, the sound is exactly the same.

I wouldn't be worried about it if that were my car, you learn to dip the clutch to silence it!

 

[Jamesv6]

you learn to dip the clutch to silence it!

Dealer told me to do that many years ago.

 

[PeteH]

Can't say I've noticed any...dramatic noise changes, from ph1 clutch and Ttv. Induction, exhaust yes

Yeh there is a slight wire wool noise on engaging clutch at low speed, but that's not anything you would be overly concerned about..and I think (got so used to it now) that at low speeds you can hear the gear box, which is a bit, well, French sounding

Who did the works? Theyd be my first call.

Saying all that above, these cars have a combination of many different sounds...all cool and combined, well, think this is why many people love these cars!

I will attempt my own video as soon as the weather allows it

 

[Lankan]

The "scraping" noise you hear should only be evident when setting off and when 'crawling' in traffic - I cannot remember what this translates to in terms of revs. There should be no sound when cruising and/or accelerating through the gears.

Having said that, since I haven't driven a Phase 1 (as yet), or a Phase 2 with a Phase 1 clutch, prior to installing the TTV in mine, I don't know whether the sound is down to the TTV flywheel or the Phase 1 clutch. When I had the TTV installed in mine I was expecting the noise to be far worse, as that has been my experience with my previous cars with lightweight flywheels, so was pleasantly surprised that the noise intrusion into the cabin was only limited to a 'scraping' sound under the two scenarios mentioned above.

 

[PeteH]

Yeh mine as you describe.

 

[idefix]

By reading Dulan's post i would also say "yep, that's how it is, exactly like mine"

Scraping-Grinding-Wirewool-Ripping-Sound when setting off and doing stop and go in traffic.
Or should i say a 3 point turn? :rofl:
Almost not noticable at higher revs when cruising or pushing through the gears.
The video in my previous post shows this noise-behaviour pretty good. It's exactly like in my vee.

I wasn't driving any faster than 40km/h in the video, so it basically represents the noise at low revs in 1st & 2nd gear between 1000&2000RPM = "crawling" in traffic

BUT
Does Dulans descripion of the sound match the video guys?
Seems like i just need to get used to it? :salut:

 

[Lankan]

Yes, I think it is a case of getting use to it Frank.

Believe me this is nothing when compared to some other cars........where some may sound as if you have a bucket of bolts being shaken about when idling!

 

[ColinG]

So scraping / grinding noises aside, what's all the fuss about with the TTV flywheel upgrade?

What is the advantage on a standard car?

 

[Lankan]

So scraping / grinding noises aside, what's all the fuss about with the TTV flywheel upgrade?

What is the advantage on a standard car?

You lose close circa 10kg in weight (and rotational mass), which makes the engine rev (and decelerate) quicker, which is especially useful when rev matching on downshifts.

However, as a side effect, one may just find that the engine stalls if they come to a sudden stop from, say, a fair speed/engine revs, such as when braking without downshifting when pulling up to roundabouts or junctions. The cure would be to make sure you always downshift or have the ECU remapped to recognise the fact that the revs are falling much quicker than the factory set up.

 

[rustedandrotten]

So scraping / grinding noises aside, what's all the fuss about with the TTV flywheel upgrade?

What is the advantage on a standard car?

Large lump of scrap metal that is really not of any great use! The difference between a 3 1/2 litre Bentley and the 20/25 Rolls Royce of the same era was basically the weight of the flywheel, huge mass in the Rolls gave smooth running but sedate accelleration due to the energy required to spin up the flywheel against the rougher running but much more responsive, faster accellerating and more pronounced engine braking of the Bentley.
The centrifugal force required to spin up a flywheel is collosal and is worse the faster the revs rise, also you have a massive gyroscope in the back of the car and as you will all remember gyroscopes are great at holding things stable but hate having their orientation changed with all sorts of strange effects, not what you need in the back of a Vee :rofl: :race: :approve:
In the case of mine, the flywheel bonding was in a state of near terminal failure though it was only manifesting itself under pressure when it behaved like a variomatic transmission. Good riddance to a piece of 'modern' technology that is a purely retrograde step, might even get a bit more mpg.
The dual mass was brought in due to the total lack of ability of modern drivers to use the clutch and gear box properly where the shock to the system of jamming the box straight from 6th to 2nd at 90 mph tended to rip the guts and centre out of conventional plates. Driven without excessive stupid stress such as this should mean that the clutch will not suffer, it doesn't on the bulk of Ph1s driven properly. :approve:
The dual mass seems to be a bit of a disaster with flywheels disintegrating all over the place particulary Vauxhalls who have basically revoked all warranty claims on the clutch once the car has done 15k :rofl:

 

[srt40]

My PH2 is with Scott having the DMF removed as we speak...