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Track Day Fun - My Experience

GlowRed

New Member
As requested, here are the details of the track day I’ve just been on. Firstly I would like to say that I am no track day specialist so the following is just my opinion.

Location: Bedford Autodrome
Date: 22nd March 2014
Conditions: Mostly dry but very windy

This is the first track day I have done in my Phase II Vee. I purchased the car in December and it has had a complete brake refurb, including a strip down and the seals replaced. I had a high grade brake fluid and have K-Tec braided brake hoses. So the car should stop.

I have also installed a Janspeed ‘Spike’ exhaust which gives a couple of extra BHP, is lighter than standard and also sounds great. Also, installed is a K&N air filter.

Bedford are renowned for their strict noise limits with a one strike and your home policy, so I was a little concerned about the exhaust. On the static test it measured 97dB, the max allowable is 101dB and there are a number of microphones dotted around the circuit measuring noise levels, which cannot be greater than 87.5dB. The car did not exceed the track noise limits.

As this was the first time I had taken the car on track I started with a couple of exploratory laps and it soon became apparent that the Vee is a very capable track car.

My approach was to brake before the corners and then gradually feed the power in and through the corner, balancing the car, before nailing the throttle on the exit. Pushing harder you notice little body roll and it was commented that the front wheel would sometimes lift off the ground. The car did understeer but this can be balanced on the throttle and if necessary corrected but turning into the slide.

Now I did lose the car once. I approached a corner and dropped down a gear and applied the power. The car started to understeer and I tried to save it, but to no avail and it ended with a lot of tyre smoke and the car pointing the wrong way. I don’t know if there is an inertia switch in the car but it took a couple of times to get started. Anyway, I’ve read that your not trying hard enough if you have not had a spin in your Vee.

The brakes were very good with no fade in the stints I did. The brake pedal remained the same throughout and I had full confidence in the braking zones.

My only problem was with the clutch. My car has only done 23K miles and the previous owner only drove a few hundred miles each year. I don’t think that the clutch fluid has ever been changed and it may be that water or air has got into the fluid over time. Anyway, on two of the stints the clutch failed completely and I had to wait for the car to cool down before going out again. I’m hoping that a change in fluid will sort this out, but hopefully I’ll get some feedback on a thread I’ve started relating to this. Thread Link

The Vee was obviously not the fastest car on track but it was definitely not the slowest. It’s difficult to say how it compared against other cars because the other driver could be more or less experienced / good. There were a number of very powerful cars, such as high powered Merc’s, Nissan GT-R’s, M3 BMW’s and track day specials, and the Vee had no chance against these. However, It was certainly quicker than the other Renaults, MR2, BMW 1 Series, MX5’s. It was faster than some of the lower powered Caterham type cars though it was more difficult to shake them on the twisty sections.

As improvements go the basic design of the car is it’s major flaw, but that is why we buy them. This is why I bought mine, for a driving challenge. With the car we have, the improvements I would say are more grip and better corner handling. And of course more power and torque. I understand that power and torque is difficult to add, better air filter, free-flow exhaust and a remap may get 20hp. On the handling side a Quaife LSD differential, different tyres and maybe upgraded suspension.

The track day was great fun. Bedford was definitely a great place to start, a long track with great corners and big run-off areas.

I hope that this is of interest, and if you have any questions then please ask.

I’ll be posting some photo’s Picture Link and even a video or two shortly.
 
That's for the write up, it's really interesting to read about how others are using their cars, especially as they don't often make it to the track.

I have heard Bedford is a great place to start with its safe run offs.

Sorry to hear about the clutch problems but if it's a fluid issue then at least it's a simple fix.

Are you a track day regular or was it a once in a while thing?

You mentioned a bit about under steer, if you kept pushing did that understeer snap into instant radical oversteer as the v6 clio reputation states or was it more controllable.

On the odd occasion my car hasbeen pushed on the road the rear has stepped out a little but it was much like any other rwd car, I would love to try something like you if only to see how snappy/ terrible/ uncontrollable the car actually is. I have in mind it's not bad at all. I guess it also varies between cars and little differences in setup.

Do you plan on another trip? :race:

Thanks again for the proper write up it really enjoyed it and the pictures of the car are wonderful...

We may see a few more threads like this after people have been around goodwood at clio rs... :salut:

[smilie=thanks.gif]
 
Just wondering how long you stayed out on track? At full pelt 15-20 mins is long enough before things start getting too hot.
 
Great write up, good to hear such feed back these cars... especially from a new owner. Bedford was the first time I ever drove a v6 on a circuit, courtesy of Renault UK. Not as nimble as my 182 at the time, but just as much fun and even more involving. It merely fuelled my desire to one day own my own v6. ;)

matt.v10":32qwzi05 said:
We may see a few more threads like this after people have been around goodwood at Origine RS... :salut:

[smilie=thanks.gif]

Guessing you meant Origine RS Matt..? 8) It will be very interesting to hear of others thoughts and opinions... we have 12/13 v6's paid up for track time already! :bow:
 
When looking for faster lap times, the tires usually are the cheapest option because you can easily replace them with some with higher grip level. They might cost a bit more but sooner er later you have to replace them anyway. The brakes are not bad but the can be brought to the limit as done by me. Fading was never a problem though and they rather started vibrating. But it takes a lot of time on track. About the same time it took me to bring the cooling system to the limit which was around 40 mins flat out at 20+ degrees.

For everyone who doesn't know yet: Track days are huge fun and the vee is easily up to the job with a few preparations. :race:
 
eastlmark":1y5hxmu5 said:
Just wondering how long you stayed out on track? At full pelt 15-20 mins is long enough before things start getting too hot.

I did one warm up lap then about 7-8 laps, then a cool down lap. This would be about 20-30 minutes.

Unfortunately, I didn't always manage a cool down lap due to a spin and two clutch failures.
 
matt.v10":3kkormcs said:
I have heard Bedford is a great place to start with its safe run offs.

Plenty of run-offs. You have to do something pretty major to hit anything.

matt.v10":3kkormcs said:
Sorry to hear about the clutch problems but if it's a fluid issue then at least it's a simple fix.

Hoping that it's just old clutch fluid / air trapped. Anyway off to Scott soon to have him look at it.

matt.v10":3kkormcs said:
Are you a track day regular or was it a once in a while thing?

I've done a couple of Palmer Sport days and this was my third track day. Hoping to do some more though.

matt.v10":3kkormcs said:
You mentioned a bit about under steer, if you kept pushing did that understeer snap into instant radical oversteer as the v6 clio reputation states or was it more controllable.

When I watched the spin I had in slow motion the car was early into the corner when it suddenly broke away. Hoping to have a video or two on YouTube soon.

On the odd occasion my car hasbeen pushed on the road the rear has stepped out a little but it was much like any other rwd car, I would love to try something like you if only to see how snappy/ terrible/ uncontrollable the car actually is. I have in mind it's not bad at all. I guess it also varies between cars and little differences in setup.
 
GlowRed":tzytw0vo said:
matt.v10":tzytw0vo said:
I have heard Bedford is a great place to start with its safe run offs.

Plenty of run-offs. You have to do something pretty major to hit anything.

matt.v10":tzytw0vo said:
Sorry to hear about the clutch problems but if it's a fluid issue then at least it's a simple fix.

Hoping that it's just old clutch fluid / air trapped. Anyway off to Scott soon to have him look at it.

matt.v10":tzytw0vo said:
Are you a track day regular or was it a once in a while thing?

I've done a couple of Palmer Sport days and this was my third track day. Hoping to do some more though.

matt.v10":tzytw0vo said:
You mentioned a bit about under steer, if you kept pushing did that understeer snap into instant radical oversteer as the v6 clio reputation states or was it more controllable.

When I watched the spin I had in slow motion the car was early into the corner when it suddenly broke away. Hoping to have a video or two on YouTube soon.
 
Seems like you had loads of fun in your Vee. Well done :approve:

Are you running the standard suspension? What tyres and tyre pressures did you use on track?
 
Lankan":235o7epq said:
Seems like you had loads of fun in your Vee. Well done :approve:

Are you running the standard suspension? What tyres and tyre pressures did you use on track?

I'm running standard suspension and ran the standard tyre pressures adjusting them throughout the day. My tyres are Michelin Pilot Sport 225/35 on front and 245/40 on the rears.

I know that the fronts are not the correct size, but they came with the car and I will run them until they need replacing, with Pilot Super Sports.
 
Sounds like you had a great time. Good to hear someone is using their Vee in anger.

GlowRed":rx6u7g4x said:
My approach was to brake before the corners and then gradually feed the power in...

GlowRed":rx6u7g4x said:
The car did understeer

I hope this is taken as intended (helpful advice for getting even more out of future trackdays). Your two statements above are directly linked.

As you have only done a few trackdays I'd strongly recommend getting as much driving tuition as you can. It's by far and away the cheapest way to reduce lap times and increase fun. I nearly always book a few minutes of tuition even after 10 plus years of doing trackdays (if it's good enough for F1 drivers...).

Back to your statements... one of the first things any instructor is likely to talk to you about (beyond lines etc) is braking to the apex, trail braking, whatever you want to call it. This is very important as it ensures you still have weight over the front axle when you're turning in to a corner, and are generating more grip. Any car will understeer (to an extent) but braking correctly, to keep weight where you want it, can manage this. After the apex you can start feeding in the power as you said (instructors like analogies with a piece of string attached to the steering wheel and pedals to describe the process of braking and applying throttle when cornering).

Obviously I've simplified above, and every corner is different, but having driven a Vee a fair amount I assure you it is not an overly understeer prone car and scrubbing up on braking techniques with an instructor will solve all :race:

Very jealous you're getting to experience trackdays in a Vee :bow:
 
rapide":1fccjx49 said:
As you have only done a few trackdays I'd strongly recommend getting as much driving tuition as you can. It's by far and away the cheapest way to reduce lap times and increase fun. I nearly always book a few minutes of tuition even after 10 plus years of doing trackdays (if it's good enough for F1 drivers...).

Back to your statements... one of the first things any instructor is likely to talk to you about (beyond lines etc) is braking to the apex, trail braking, whatever you want to call it. This is very important as it ensures you still have weight over the front axle when you're turning in to a corner, and are generating more grip. Any car will understeer (to an extent) but braking correctly, to keep weight where you want it, can manage this. After the apex you can start feeding in the power as you said (instructors like analogies with a piece of string attached to the steering wheel and pedals to describe the process of braking and applying throttle when cornering).

Thanks for the info.

As a new owner I want to get a couple of track days on my own to get an understanding on how the car handles and to also try to get to a point where the car runs without issue (I had clutch problems on this track day). Then my plan is to get some tuition.
 
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