Suspension set up.

[moktabe]

Not sure how many here have seriously looked into this, have done a search but very little useful info comes up.

Have the KW on my car and they are set to firm all around, without looking in the book where Scott wrote the settings down ( the book is elsewhere ) firm is the best description. After a while asked Scott to set the rear one click firmer as I prefer the car to have quite a hard ride.

It sits quite low and occasionally the rear arch will touch the tyre and I know I can firm it up even more but not sure that'd be an overly wise move as it might lead to it skipping around corners, last resort I can raise it a few mm but would rather not.

Was discussing this with the guy who does all the cosmetic stuff whilst the car was in with him over the weekend. He has a mate who builds and races VW Golfs professionally and suggested I gave him a call which I did this morning....he said he knew the car and would be happy to have a look and get it set up exactly as I prefer. I understand compression, I understand rebound but struggle to understand how they relate to each other. He started to explain but I stopped him as it was sailing way over my head [smilie=icon_eek.gif] ...he asked me what the spring weights were....yer, right. Have a contact inside KW who has since provided all the relevant spec sheets

It's provisionally booked in with him late next week so it will be interesting to see what he says / recommends / does.

One more thing to add, the Yokohama A052 tyres have changed how the car feels totally.

 

[10]

I'm just putting KW's on mine and will be taking it to Center of Gravity in Birmingham to have it set up. My brother has had his done with great results; it totally transforms the car changing the suspension but invariably you don't get maximum performance benefit without having it setup by someone who knows what they are doing!

Interesting what you say about the tyres, is it ride or handling characteristics that have changed?

 

[moktabe]

Ref tyres,

A little of both to be honest.

Ride has become a little firmer as there is very little flex in the sidewalls, handling has become a little sharper and steering more direct...again due to lack of sidewall flex. This is the 3rd car I've fitted semi-slicks to and each time the car has felt so much better to drive. That however is my own personal opinion and we're all different in how we like a car to behave / feel.

 

[moktabe]

How he's set it up....

 

[9810588]

I’m surprised it has more negative camber for the rear axle.

Care to share the compression and rebound settings?

 

[Brett]

Upping the compression setting to eliminate tyre scrub isn’t ideal as the cheaper types of damper bodies cover fast and slow rebound/bound settings with just one click usually. Have you considered upping the spring rate? Or better still having a helper spring setup? Ie a very small spring with a lowish rate that covers the first 1/2 -3/4s of an inch of travel. Once fully bound it then leans on a stiffer main spring.
You do have the option of adding more camber if it can eliminate the scrubbing issue. They do like a little more camber for more spirited driving but obviously at the trade off of tyre wear if the car is used more in a straight line than spirited around corners.
My personal opinion would be raise the car until its doesn’t scrub to a point it bothers you. These cars out of all cars should be setup to handle as well as they can. As opposed to using setting to eliminate something that’s largely non handling related. Realistically, the damper settings are chosen in a way to keep the tyre in contact with the road more depending on the surface you drive on. Not so much for ride quality or using it as a bump stop. BUT, its all subjective. If the car feels ok for you then thats all that matters.
Scott’s pretty bang on when it comes to setting these up. He knows exactly what does what. Stick to his advise and you won’t go wrong. :approve:

 

[moktabe]

The compression / rebound settings have remained the same.

The guy was happy with the spring rates so the springs are staying as they are.

He took it out for 15 mins and his thoughts were that the steering, although reacting quickly, wasn't quickly enough for him. He felt the alignment was likely out a little also....how he manages to come up with this I have no idea. Told him it had a full alignment when the KW were fitted and he replied that changing wheel / tyres can have a detrimental effect at times....also as suspension bushes wear slightly that can also affect things.

Have already spoken to Scott re spring rates etc and different set ups.

I suggested to the guy about raising the rear 3mm and he said there'd be no need, he'd do a complete realignment and take it from there...spent ages doing it and, as Scott did, paid huge attention to accuracy of the settings. He took it out again afterwards and was happy with it and my thoughts were that if he was happy I'd be delighted.

The car feels different again, still very firm yet no rattling or crashiness that had started to creep in. Asked him if it would benefit from corner weighting and he replied definitely but not yet, told me to take it away and drive it for a while to make sure I was happy with the feel then look at corner weighting.

The car now feels extremely sharp, very reactive and handles sublimely.

As mentioned though, how a car should handle and feel is totally subjective and, let's be honest here, my driving ability isn't anywhere near good enough to gain the maximum benefits from all these minute set up changes but that doesn't stop me wanting it to be the best it can be.
I remember only too well Scott taking me out after he'd fitted the KW...never been so glad to get out of a car :rofl: . This guy asked if I wanted to jump in when he took it out...nah, I made the coffees instead.

Fascinating having a look at the racecars though....works of art.

 

[moktabe]

I’m surprised it has more negative camber for the rear axle.

Care to share the compression and rebound settings?

Currently a work in progress (see above post)

Will post up when all finally finished.

 

[Kett]

This is a great piece of work.

Data regarding setting up a KW suspension should be like having recommended manufacturers tyre pressures made available.

With OE Konis & springs no longer in production; KW represent both an upgrade and an affordable alternative. Something to be celebrated really...

 

[Brett]

Not sure if many know but there is also the RS Centre platform.... :troll:

 

[recoverysolutions]

Not sure if many know but there is also the RS Centre platform.... :troll/quote

if only there was a post or 600 on his product ! :rofl:

 

[Kett]

Not sure if many know but there is also the RS Centre platform....

A complete set are on my EuroMillions winning ticket list...

 

[Brett]

I’m sure they are very good and a few notches better than KW. Just a shame they now come with added K Tax.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Hi there. Just a bit of info...... I have achieved excellent results with my new tyre combination on my Phase 1 V6 but firstly when i bought the car someone had fitted 205 45 17 Federal RSR semi slick track day tyres on the front & 255 40 17 Accierra budgets on the rear. The front RSRs have really stiff side walls for track use (tyre man struggled to get them off) & together with the wider size it made the car track horribly over every undulation in the road to the point where it would change direction & provoke the rear when driving hard in twisty back roads. The Accerrias on the rear just had too much tread block movement & poor compound grip, they also didn't have a true 255 width & had a large side wall to tread profile radius which caused them to tuck under which made the rear very unstable on direction change...... I have now fitted Toyo 195 50 17 R32s on the front (back to standard size) & have kept the 255 40 17 size on the rear but have used Yokohama AD08R. I first tried the car with just the front Toyos fitted & it transformed the front. Super smooth on the road surface, no kicking of the steering wheel & moving around also better turn in & mid corner grip (nice new compound & it works from cold). The rear was a bit better too as not provoked by the front moving but it was still a bit unstable on direction change & long corners. I then fitted the Yokohama rears as well & the car feels way better all round now. The instability has Been reduced a lot & the rear has much better grip in general, the traction has also been improved. The Yokohama does produce true 255 width tread profile which helps the grip & with a slight overhang outside the wheel rim it helps to eliminate the tyre tucking under during direction change & hard cornering. When the car rolls on the rear in the corners it leans on the tyre harder now & heats it up better. When the rears are cold the front has superb grip & turn in, you can feel the rear of the car has a little loss of grip but once the rears get warm (trait of a track based tyre) the rear picks up lots of grip & the front changes to a little entry - mid corner understeer which is actually nice & predictable. If the car is really pushed the mid corner understeer can turn to a little exit oversteer but only if you lift off a little too much mid corner so a little more "on throttle" mid corner sorts most of that out. Wet running is also greatly improved as well, the rear has better traction & less mid corner to exit oversteer. The front feels similar to the dry unless you really provoke it with sharp steering input where it has some turn in understeer. After a bit of trial & error I've found that running 26psi pressure in the front & 29psi in the rear seems to be the best combination with these tyres. Anyway i hope this helps anyone thinking about new tyre combinations on their Phase 1 V6 (will probably mostly apply to Phase 2s as well. :race:

 

[Brett]

Bloody hell, thats the opposite of what I did :rofl: I fitted wider tyres all round and found better results. I was also never the biggest fan of the asymmetric michelins so had directional bridgestones which I thought were much better both on track and road.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Yes i think the factory Michelins can be improved upon but it takes some trial & error in finding the best combination of width, profile, make/tyre structure, compound & pressures. And all that is compounded if adjustable coilovers are being used. I'm running rebuilt standard suspension but I'm sure my tyre option can definitely be improved upon but of course as usual it's all down to money ! Wider front tyres will probably improve mid corner front grip but as long as the side walls are not too stiff to affect ride quality. In addition as you probably know if you run 205 wide front tyres the inside of the tyre will rub on the front spring so you have to run wheel spacers for them to clear, this increases the track width which only contributes to the front tracking across uneven road surfaces even more. It'll probably increase front stability on open faster roads but you don't need more stability on the front, it's on the rear it's needed. I think track based tyres on the front should be avoided for road use as with their generally stiffer sidewalls our roads are not smooth enough & have inconsistant surfaces. Also with a rear wheel drive road car it's so much harder to get heat into the front tyres to make a track based tyre work properly on the road. I think track based tyres on the rear are fine as the Clio V6 can develop plenty enough heat in it's rear tyres. :approve:

 

[Brett]

I think you are mistaken Jules. The original tyre size was 205 so 100% no risk of tyre rubbing in any way shape or form. I ran a 225 section tyre on oem wheels too. Again, no tyre scrub. The rears however are very near to the springs running 255 but don’t touch so again no spacers.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Ahh sorry, mental TYPO, i meant my car used to run 215 45 17 on the front, that used to just touch without wheel spacers. I now run the standard 205 50 17 Toyo R32. I think the tyres touching the springs with wider tyres does however depend a bit on the make of tyre as some are not a true 215mm, some are slightly under size some over size & some have a more convex side wall than others. Mine was running 1cm wheel spacers on the front with 215s to fully clear the springs, i removed them when i went back to standard 205s. Yes my Yokohamas just clear the springs on the inside by a few mm.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Sorry for the earlier size confusion lol :rofl:

 

[Brett]

Hmmmmm. Ok, both my car and my brothers sits on 225 fronts, oem springs, no spacers. Picture shows the 225’s on oem wheels with no spacers.

[album]21501[/album]