Modifications and values

[Duncan]

Question for Duncan:

How does Yorky's R5 Maxi Turbo value compare to OEM?

Is it a case that a real Maxi is outrageously expensive that a copy is not frowned upon too badly?
(Lovely car btw!)

Im not to hot on the T2 values as they have gone through the roof. I recall at the time that this car was for sale, it was miles more expensive than standard T2s, so would assume that is still the case. The T2 scene is full of maxi replicas, so i would assume that this is in demand.

Yes, real maxis seem to 300k+, but they were made in truly tiny numbers so are not really comparable to a normal T1/T2 in terms of value.

 

[Kett]

Thank you Duncan.

Just goes to show that some modifications are perfectly acceptable and do not necessarily detract from the value of the iconic car. There's a very nice V6 trophy replica in the picture too...
ColinG - hope that helps your mindset!

 

[Iow v6]

Use it and enjoy it worry about it later.( I need that r5 turbo will he take my Clio and my wife for it)

 

[Lankan]

Interesting discussion........but don't think you have anything to worry about Colin.

 

[Ohms]

Modifying a really low mileage minter is sacrilege - anything with sub 20K on the clock should be kept standard at this point in time IMO.

I purposely wanted a higer mileage car so that I could OEM+ a few bits. Some years ago i owned a Renault 5 GT Turbo with 10K miles on the clock it was factory standard and as tempting it was to liberate a few extra ponies with a boost upgrade, the car was one of a kind and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Seeing the way prices have gone for standard cars that was the right thing to do.

To 'resto-mod' a leggier car with the same thought and care as something like a singer 911 will always be appealing to the right buyer and can command a premium if properly done.

 

[matt.v10]

As a collectors car/ if your not into driving/ or have two cars I can see why you would want to stay completely standard.

I think if any changes are reversible especially if you keep the standard parts then there simply can't be any adverse affect.

There are some fantastic upgrades for the car and if I had not done them the car would have been gone long ago regardless of mileage. The seating position was unacceptable for example.

I think the spectrum between modified and standard is an interesting thing to have, not everyone wants the same thing and it would be a bit 'beardy' if we all sat around scrutinising which cars were OEM and which were OEM ++++. :approve:

 

[Brett]

Why anybody would worry about the standard seats in a v6 is beyond me. A beer crate and a piece of rope as a seat belt would be more comfy and better fitting to a v6! Instead of worrying what "v6 people" think, look at other collectable and appreciating cars on the market. The typical petrol head modification don't really effect anything. I think people are forgeting that although quite rare, these cars aren't one offs. Things that genuinely increase the drivability of the car can only be seen as a positive unless the car in question has ubber low milage and is as new for the niche market that wants cars like that. If people want, upgraded seats, a more vocal exhaust, better suspension, engine upgrades etc etc now, why won't they want them in 10 or 20 years time?
I'm the last person to worry about vee prices considering what I've done to mine but I have no intentions on selling. I think people get way too worried about whats been done and not how well its been done. Bill Patchalls car has loads of mods. The standard is perfect though, no question. Mr Sheeders T2 has loads of mods, the standard is also perfect. These cars in my opinion command a high value too because of the standard of work and the condition of them in general. This scenerio is not only found in markets like the v6 is found in, but other collectable marques. Silverstone classic tends to prove this where you will rarely find any 2 cars exactly the same you 95% of them are all sought after.

 

[Kett]

If you still have the triangle shaped mounting bracket for the OEM air box, you are £ucky

I'm rich!!!!

 

[Jamesv6]

:bow:

 

[MarkK]

If people want, upgraded seats, a more vocal exhaust, better suspension, engine upgrades etc etc now, why won't they want them in 10 or 20 years time?

Mainly because style and taste changes, but original is just that....as the designers penned the car, for good or bad. And that's what collectors want.

I play with Lotus Cortinas and Twincam Escorts, and it's eye-watering what has to be paid for stuff that was junked when new. Both Mk2 Lotus Cortina and Twincam Escort had a huge aircleaner sat on top of the engine which everybody replaced with something the equivalent of K&N filters. Now the original air boxes are highly prized....like £2000 for a tatty but complete setup, up to £3500 for a NOS set! That's for an air filter, not the engine!!!!!

Something that was always replaced on the Escorts was the front seats. My Mexico had it's seats replaced by the Contour Driver and reclining Navigator set, the standard replacement seats for the works cars which are themselves now prized. But when I picked my car up from the original owner, he asked me if I wanted the original seats, which he had put up in the loft 35 years earlier! Of course I did, and they are mint and perfect, having never been sat on. These are bog standard Escort seats, fitted in the base 1100 and 1300 cars, so maybe 'only' fitted to half a million Escorts. I've been offered £2000 for the seats, and could probably sell them 20 or 30 times over.

The list goes on and on, with folks willing and even desperate to spend a fortune putting their cars back to a so called original specification. I don't see why the Vee would be any different in years to come, except that their rare bits are from the more sporty Clios in the first place, which are a lot more rare than the standard production Clios.

Hang on to your original bits, and if you haven't got them anymore, get them!

 

[Brett]

Thats fair enough, but that works for the folk who wants original. How much are Escorts going for with 4 or 5 link suspension, competition based engines using genuine period parts etc etc? They are hardly chalk and cheese to my limited knowledge on them. As alot know, I'm a fan of the Mk1 mini in particular the S. I'm paying massive premiums not only for genuine S parts but also genuine period aftermarket stuff. Arden heads, westlake heads, mechanical injection, wheels etc etc. I was in talks with an American chap recently for a TJ injection system. Shite, utter shite by all accounts. Didn't stop him wanting $15,000 for it though! I'm just sitting on the other fence not giving a monkey about originality to a degree. I'm also paying quite large sums of money for non original parts produces in the 60's and 70's. Its 6 of one, half a dozen of the other in my opinion.

 

[graham]

Colin you need to sell them seats to me the standard versions would look good in your v

 

[MarkK]

Interesting comparison with the Minis and Escorts Brett, and I guess they are not so different. Unfortunately the sporty Escort world is dominated by obsession with bodyshell changes, where swapping a rotted out Type 49 'AVO' shell for a 'lesser' model shell, even if built up to the correct standard, is seen as somehow creating a fake car.

The out and out current competition cars tend to be built from all new components, and any shell so long as it's strong, all put together under an old identity. There is little interest there in originality or even period parts...winning is all that matters.

Then there are the 'original' ex-works cars, where original period parts sell for a fortune. It is a strange situation as these cars are essentially used to show only, with the odd tarmac stage event thrown in to further show the car. Usually the only original parts on these cars are the ones that the owners have paid a fortune for!

The majority of cars are original or close to original specification, and they can be worth more that the ex-works cars, as everybody knows what the ex-works cars really are! A lot depends on the provenance of the car, proving that it is authentic and of the correct specification. It can get very anal here!

The last group are the cars that are still used for club competition and fun. These are the ones with the 4 point linkage, period mods (because they've always had them) and are on their 5th or 6th shell! They are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to value, but probably at the top for fun.

But this situation is much the same for all classics, I guess. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds for the Vee as it's never going to be a bargain basement price that Minis and Escorts fell to, and the competition cars are a different model. Maybe they will follow a different pattern with regards values.

I had Minis for a while as well, and restored a Cooper 'S' whilst at school! Not just a Cooper 'S', but a 970, bought for £20, and after 2 years restoration, sold for a whopping £175, a long, long time ago. BCA 334B in Tartan Red with a black roof and Cibie Biode headlamps......I wonder if it survived? Another one I wish that I'd kept.

 

[Brett]

What you have said makes perfect scenes Mark. Especially regarding reshelling which really pisses me off. My car is a genuine period race car that was owned and raced by Bill McGovern before his Imp days and raced very successfully after that. It's not an App K car but I hope to think it's worth a good chunk more by the end of the year due to the footage I have of the car racing and a collection of genuine period aftermarket parts.

£20 for a 970s?? I'm paying £1500+ for 970 cranks, £1k for ropey old blocks and big amounts for gearbox casings. All of which proves any old shit hot hatch maybe worth a million sooner or later! :rofl:

 

[rustedandrotten]

I had an ex works Cooper 'S' many moons ago, better know as 'Bashed Crashed and F*cked' due to the reg and the fact that it had had several shells before leaving ST as well as engines so it was never the car it was first registered as even before it left the factory!! It was a kit of bits with an ident sold to put money in the coffers of ST. It was reshelled several times after this so it all becomes a bit academic. These cars were used for competition, got wrecked and rebuilt, developed and modified to keep them competitive, and then ultimately 'restored' so you would be hard pushed to find much of an original car left. Bugattis are having some real problems identifying which bit came from which car!!

 

[Lankan]

What you have said makes perfect scenes Mark. Especially regarding reshelling which really pisses me off. My car is a genuine period race car that was owned and raced by Bill McGovern before his Imp days and raced very successfully after that. It's not an App K car but I hope to think it's worth a good chunk more by the end of the year due to the footage I have of the car racing and a collection of genuine period aftermarket parts.

£20 for a 970s?? I'm paying £1500+ for 970 cranks, £1k for ropey old blocks and big amounts for gearbox casings. All of which proves any old s**t hot hatch maybe worth a million sooner or later! :rofl:

Brett, if you haven't done so already, do have a look at the latest issue of Classic Cars (April 2016) - very interesting article about Bill McGovern and his cars.

Tried to PM you but it wasn't possible.....

 

[Brett]

Thanks Dulan!! I will go out and get that!

 

[ed_harland]

Thanks Dulan!! I will go out and get that!

Me too, I used to build some killer imp engines around McGovern's time