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Gearbox woes

T

taipan

New Member
Using second and third gear for about an hour on the fantastic roads around the Lakes has lunched third gear in my gearbox.

Crunching and refusing to engage third in all but the gentlest of downchanges. Changing up is ok if it's done slowly. Once engaged the whirring is much louder than normal - also louder in fourth strangely - and I can physically push the gear lever forward once third gear is engaged where I can't in every other gear. Third gear works though, car accelerates as normal.

So, I assume third gear synchro is fooked. Fourth affected as well hence the louder than normal whirring? As I see it my two options are: full rebuild for peace of mind or source a ph2 box from somewhere. I won't be driving the car much till next spring/summer and am avoiding third gear so will look to get something sorted when cambelts due next spring.

Questions: from the above does it sound like a synchro issue? How much to recondition current box? How much is a ph2 box?

[smilie=thanks.gif]
 
taipan":2f61zu0n said:
Using second and third gear for about an hour on the fantastic roads around the Lakes has lunched third gear in my gearbox.

Crunching and refusing to engage third in all but the gentlest of downchanges. Changing up is ok if it's done slowly. Once engaged the whirring is much louder than normal - also louder in fourth strangely - and I can physically push the gear lever forward once third gear is engaged where I can't in every other gear. Third gear works though, car accelerates as normal.

So, I assume third gear synchro is fooked. Fourth affected as well hence the louder than normal whirring? As I see it my two options are: full rebuild for peace of mind or source a ph2 box from somewhere. I won't be driving the car much till next spring/summer and am avoiding third gear so will look to get something sorted when cambelts due next spring.

Questions: from the above does it sound like a synchro issue? How much to recondition current box? How much is a ph2 box?

[smilie=thanks.gif]
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That's two of us after Ph2 Boxes then! Anyone help us? TBH, After Honister Pass and many other climbs, my box is making new noises too [smilie=icon_eek.gif]
 
As per my post on the Lakes meet thread - mine has a bearing going on 3rd/4th and is currently down with Motech getting rebuilt.
 
i believe a ph2 box new is silly money. somewhere around 2-3k from memory.

2nd hand probably looking around 300-1000 (depending on condition) for a ph2 box if you can find one.

I paid £500 for one and got it from LINK, you fill in a form and it gets sent out to a load of breakers, and if anyone has a box then they will give you a quote for it.

Speaking from experience, I would 100% recommend that if you buy a secondhand box that you get it reconditioned fully before putting it in the car. Its expensive to correct if you dont!!!! I understand reconditioning costs somewhere around £200-500, i guess your best off speaking to a company for a better idea of costs.

As i understand, both boxes are identical in terms of strength. They look identical aswell (therefore be very careful that you are getting a ph2 box and not another ph1 - people may try and trick you!!). Its just the ratios that are different, and i found the throw was shorter than a ph1 aswell (might just of been a mind trick though).

The ph2 box is a great upgrade, but its not a cheap or simple task as they seem to be rarely avaliable.

One was for sale recently in France LINK

I would give Scott @ SG a call, im sure he can assist with the repair or at least point you in the right direction.
 
I was quoted £1500+vat+fitting for a Reconditioned Phase 2 box off renault. Was going to be well north of £2500. Thats why i have gone down the reconditioning by a reputable specialist route.
 
taipan":vk83vk10 said:
Oldskoolbaby":vk83vk10 said:
Lets all group buy a set of Straight cut gears and up rated syncros from Quaife!
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Tell me more....
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Was only joking fella. I very much doubt enough people would be interested in a set of SCCR's and uprated syncro's to warrent a group buy. . . . . . unfortunatly. [smilie=icon_cry.gif]
 
SPIKE":2k44ihj2 said:
Oldskoolbaby":2k44ihj2 said:
Lets all group buy a set of Straight cut gears and up rated syncros from Quaife!
Click to expand...
:approve:
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:approve: I was speaking to Scott the last time I was down there and straight cut would be the way forward for me when this one packs in. If enough people are interested, I'll go in for group buy and have it fitted when I'm ready.
 
I'm going to look into it. I assume it'll be as expensive as the other options and to be honest I'm not entirely convinced about either version of the standard gearbox; really lost confidence in it. Rather spend more cash once and all that...

Anyone else interested? I expect 5 would be enough to get some sort of discount...
 
Email to Quaife sent :approve:

And a response received [smilie=doubt.gif]

"Thank you for your enquiry, but unfortunately we do not manufacturer a kit for your box. If you could get together with a group and have an order for 10 kits and send us a sample box then I may be able to sort something out but if it is anything less unfortunately I cannot help you on that one. "

I've replied and asked for a guesstimate as to the final cost if a ten person group buy was organised. I'm guessing there almost certainly won't be 10 people on here interested but I was thinking about maybe asking on V6Passion to see whether anyone on there is keen. I think the potential Quaife offering will be a far better solution than a replacement/refurbed standard gearbox...

Reply no. 2:
"Unfortunately I cannot confirm a price as we do not know how much work will be needed to manufacturer the kit so unfortunately I cannot even give you a rough cost until we see a standard box."
 
Bloody hell, has anyone got a spare/old box lying around they could look at?

I agree 100% that a Quaife solution would be far better than an original box, because lets face it, they're crap.

I don't like the way they say it will have to be 10 units, when they don't know the complexity of the job yet... They may find it's an absolute breeze to do!
 
I'm hoping the ten units would be a way for them to offset the initial design/engineering/devleopment costs without passing them onto us.

At a push I think we could get four or five from here. If there's sufficient interest on the French forum we may be able to get this up and running. I don't mind a) waiting until there is sufficient interest/need b) supplying my box for their guinea pigging.

Like the Quaife LSD fitted to Keir's Lunar, and written about in a recent EVO, once developed these kits will be available for everyone to buy so if there are any out there who would upgrade if the parts were available perhaps join in and help those of us with existing gearbox problems out??? Pwwease!! :)

Does anybody know if the internals of a ph1 and ph2 box are different? Obviously this will significantly impact whether this is an option because it would be 10 ph1 customers (in my case) needed rather than 10 V6 customers :s
 
taipan":19ipz1nk said:
Does anybody know if the internals of a ph1 and ph2 box are different? Obviously this will significantly impact whether this is an option because it would be 10 ph1 customers (in my case) needed rather than 10 V6 customers :s
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I think they are different, in the way that the seats are different. They can both be interchanged, but one is better than the other :)

I've budgeted for a new gearbox, strange grinding noises upon cold startup have started, I know it didn't do it previously, so I'm expecting the worst sometime within the next 2 years.

I was going to spend money on a carbon roof and bonnet, but there's not much point in having a lighter car if it doesn't move!
 
Ah I see. So hopefully any developed parts could be interchangeable between the two versions. That makes things easier. My car's only done 45k and the gearbox is already fooked [smilie=doubt.gif] :evil: not acceptable but Renault will just tell me to do one I guess.

I've emailed Quaife again asking why the need for 10 participants. I told them I can supply the gearbox and I asked if 5 interested parties would be enough to get the ball rolling on this one. Guess we'll wait and see...

reply no.3

"Unfortunately we can only take an order for a minimum batch of 10 for all our new projects. So if you could only get 5 I would not be able to sort out an order for yourself"

What a bunch of gay. 10 it is then!!
 
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