A
Anonymous
Does anywhere make forged pistons and rods for the V6?? I know places to custom pistons and rods so its not the end of the worlds if no-one does them.
Even Billet rods would do.
Even Billet rods would do.
There is more to life with TurboRenault.co.uk
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
A
Anonymous
No doubt mike will see this post.
I have emailed a couple of companies, see what i get back.
I have emailed a couple of companies, see what i get back.
A
Anonymous
Going turbo so going to need them.
Not really.
I've run 1.2 bar on standard rods and low comp 8.2 HKS pistons.
Not revving high on Turbos so no need for crank unless over 500bhp
What boost you targetting to run - target bhp/torque?
Twin Turbo or single?
What ECU/Injector size.
decent boost control and engine management can ensure the standard parts are well up to most things.
I've run 1.2 bar on standard rods and low comp 8.2 HKS pistons.
Not revving high on Turbos so no need for crank unless over 500bhp
What boost you targetting to run - target bhp/torque?
Twin Turbo or single?
What ECU/Injector size.
decent boost control and engine management can ensure the standard parts are well up to most things.
A
Anonymous
Mike T":1ey0ssoa said:
I'll be running around a bar on a charge cooler, Twin T25 turbos, Omex 600 ecu, not sure on injectors yet as I havn't looked into them yet.
Will have an apexi AVCR as boost control.
Power, not sure till I get it all together and see what the balance of the car is.
I am going to rebuild the engine anyway, so might aswell at least get forged pistons. Wont bother with a crank as i dont expect to go over the standard limiter and the cams will be standard anyway.
1 Bar with ccooler gives about 407 bhp and 396lb/ft.
Piston change only will be fine.
The gearbox will explode however!! I have had to go sequential with LSD at 350 bhp and 300lb/ft
Big greens are fine for injectors, standard cams are fine.
You got the manifolds made yet as I need a set for the two GT25RS turbos I have here.
When spending this much (you will) go Motec M800 for boost and management - you will not regret it and SGW have a plug and play wiring solution for the car.
Piston change only will be fine.
The gearbox will explode however!! I have had to go sequential with LSD at 350 bhp and 300lb/ft
Big greens are fine for injectors, standard cams are fine.
You got the manifolds made yet as I need a set for the two GT25RS turbos I have here.
When spending this much (you will) go Motec M800 for boost and management - you will not regret it and SGW have a plug and play wiring solution for the car.
A
Anonymous
I had a look at the Omex 600 and it doesnt do a 6 cylinder. so will have to look at another option. I'll price up the motec.
How much was your gearbox? what other gearbox options are there??
I'll be making the manifolds myself, along with the exhaust. I'll not be running BB turbos as they are to much hassle with oil and cooling.
How much was your gearbox? what other gearbox options are there??
I'll be making the manifolds myself, along with the exhaust. I'll not be running BB turbos as they are to much hassle with oil and cooling.
With the under cover or not temps you will be running BB turbos eventually, its to hot for non BB - coolings a real bitch - even with a charger I get oil temps of up to 130 degrees even with an external oil cooler.
Contact Steve at SWR Motorsport in Swindon for M6 or 800 - use my name.
Gearbox conversion is about £12k including shafts/linkages etc etc but the Motec flat shifts and rev matches on downshifts so the clutch is not needed.
The standard clutch is shite so you'll need a trophy flywheel and twin plate clutch.
Have you thought the drive train through - it won't take turbos - it can barely take the standard engine, its a van gearbox and non lsd diff.
Also the fuel system won't cope - you need a swirl pot - twin in tank pumps and a Bosch 044 fuel pump. The fuel rail is plastic and needs replacing with a billet item and a rising rate regulator plumbed in - this is all best in aeroquip feeding from a custom aluminium toplate on the fuel tank.
Chargecooler rad at the front is installed by removing aircon and replacing the aircon rad with a second renault v6 rad plumbed to feed the chargecooler
Jabsco chargecooler water pump is best switched at 25 degrees AIT by the Motec for long life - my inlet temps don't go over 35degrees.
Air to air intercooling is a nightmare and doesn't work - best chargecooler is a PWR item from Australia
Contact Steve at SWR Motorsport in Swindon for M6 or 800 - use my name.
Gearbox conversion is about £12k including shafts/linkages etc etc but the Motec flat shifts and rev matches on downshifts so the clutch is not needed.
The standard clutch is shite so you'll need a trophy flywheel and twin plate clutch.
Have you thought the drive train through - it won't take turbos - it can barely take the standard engine, its a van gearbox and non lsd diff.
Also the fuel system won't cope - you need a swirl pot - twin in tank pumps and a Bosch 044 fuel pump. The fuel rail is plastic and needs replacing with a billet item and a rising rate regulator plumbed in - this is all best in aeroquip feeding from a custom aluminium toplate on the fuel tank.
Chargecooler rad at the front is installed by removing aircon and replacing the aircon rad with a second renault v6 rad plumbed to feed the chargecooler
Jabsco chargecooler water pump is best switched at 25 degrees AIT by the Motec for long life - my inlet temps don't go over 35degrees.
Air to air intercooling is a nightmare and doesn't work - best chargecooler is a PWR item from Australia
A
Anonymous
Mike T":392k8h4k said:
Water cooled turbos will make the overheating problem worse, rally cars disconnect the water feed from the turbo for better engine cooling. BB turbos NEED water and cool oil.
I am working on a GTR skyline at the moment that has went through 3 sets of GT28/60 BB turbos as oil lines and water lines have be restricted and the turbos burn out.
What blew in your original gearbox???
I have a pace 3 core chargecooler ready for the conversion.
Sorting the fuel system is easy enough for me as I can custom make all the parts.
I'll get a clutch sorted aswell, least of my worrys that part.
Just got to find a clio now, and get cracking.
If you sort the clutch the diff comes out of the casing on launch - MK2 box casing strenghtened but only slightly.
They also do syncro and if you check through the site you'lll see a number of gearbox issues even at standard torque.
It's the chargecooler rad at the front thats really simple if you use a V6 engine rad in front of the standard one - saves a lot of fabrication.
Engine water temps are fine its the oil temps - very small sump and low oil volume for power created - I suggest you enlarge the sump for more oil volume and go for twin air to air oil coolers in the side pods as a minimum.
To get the rear turbo in you'll need to relocate the oil filter remotely as well so its just some plumbing and a take off plate. This is also 3 inches max from the fuel tank so fabrication of a heat shield is a must
I wish you luck with non cooled bearings in there - I have no engine cover and additional ducting and temps max at 70 degrees centigrade when pushing on WITHOUT TURBOS but with a supercharger.
I've been putting this together for three years and have a good idea of the foibles of the car.
The best advise I can give you (if you want any) is no engine cover, 6R4 type inlets into plexi side windows and a fan vent through the real tailgate a la supermodified rally x cars.
The engine will take no detting - it cracks rings easily and low AIT is crucial (I run two charge coolers at only .8 bar) for reliability - I'm on my third engine and run virtually no advance under load.
You doing a MK1 or 2?
Mike
They also do syncro and if you check through the site you'lll see a number of gearbox issues even at standard torque.
It's the chargecooler rad at the front thats really simple if you use a V6 engine rad in front of the standard one - saves a lot of fabrication.
Engine water temps are fine its the oil temps - very small sump and low oil volume for power created - I suggest you enlarge the sump for more oil volume and go for twin air to air oil coolers in the side pods as a minimum.
To get the rear turbo in you'll need to relocate the oil filter remotely as well so its just some plumbing and a take off plate. This is also 3 inches max from the fuel tank so fabrication of a heat shield is a must
I wish you luck with non cooled bearings in there - I have no engine cover and additional ducting and temps max at 70 degrees centigrade when pushing on WITHOUT TURBOS but with a supercharger.
I've been putting this together for three years and have a good idea of the foibles of the car.
The best advise I can give you (if you want any) is no engine cover, 6R4 type inlets into plexi side windows and a fan vent through the real tailgate a la supermodified rally x cars.
The engine will take no detting - it cracks rings easily and low AIT is crucial (I run two charge coolers at only .8 bar) for reliability - I'm on my third engine and run virtually no advance under load.
You doing a MK1 or 2?
Mike
This is all a far cry from my first DIY forced induction project on an old mini when I was 18 - back in the 80's.
I dismantled a Kirby vacuum cleaner and mounted the centrifugal compressor housing (reversed) onto the engine acting as a supercharger
What a fun project and very Heath Robinson ...
Next was the 'first in the UK' MG-Maestro EFI turbo conversion (no flaming for that !). My first exhaust manifold was a bit hit and miss until I got Tube-Torque to make me a tubular one. Now that was a fast car - late 80's that one. All DIY EFI changes too (with wires and meters all over the passenger foot well - LOL) as this was before easy access to ECU mapping and after market ECU's etc.
Would love turbos on my V6 but can't justify the cost, especially in all of the non-engine areas.
Have always admired the supercharger/turbo combinations ala Lancia Delta gpB but somehow don't think the V6 is the right platform for that.
Martin
I dismantled a Kirby vacuum cleaner and mounted the centrifugal compressor housing (reversed) onto the engine acting as a supercharger
What a fun project and very Heath Robinson ...Next was the 'first in the UK' MG-Maestro EFI turbo conversion (no flaming for that !). My first exhaust manifold was a bit hit and miss until I got Tube-Torque to make me a tubular one. Now that was a fast car - late 80's that one. All DIY EFI changes too (with wires and meters all over the passenger foot well - LOL) as this was before easy access to ECU mapping and after market ECU's etc.
Would love turbos on my V6 but can't justify the cost, especially in all of the non-engine areas.
Have always admired the supercharger/turbo combinations ala Lancia Delta gpB but somehow don't think the V6 is the right platform for that.
Martin
A
Anonymous
I'll look into the box if its going to be a pain in the arse and see what other companies offer, thats if there are other companies.
As you say the chargecooler is easy to sort.
Is the sump steel or alloy??? Having bigger oil coolers increases the oil capacity and relocating the filter is a piece of piss to do.
Will be worth getting a couple of turbo blankets, this keeps the heat right down and increases spool up time on the turbo's. But does heat the oil/water up more.
Clutch is easy sorted, I'll modify the standard flywheel to take a twin plate, is the clutch cable or hydraulic???
I'm looking for a Mk1, have all your engines been Mk1's???
The V6 platform would be great for a turbo conversion, you just need to know when to stop going stupid with the power and retain the balance of the car.
As you say the chargecooler is easy to sort.
Is the sump steel or alloy??? Having bigger oil coolers increases the oil capacity and relocating the filter is a piece of piss to do.
Will be worth getting a couple of turbo blankets, this keeps the heat right down and increases spool up time on the turbo's. But does heat the oil/water up more.
Clutch is easy sorted, I'll modify the standard flywheel to take a twin plate, is the clutch cable or hydraulic???
I'm looking for a Mk1, have all your engines been Mk1's???
The V6 platform would be great for a turbo conversion, you just need to know when to stop going stupid with the power and retain the balance of the car.
The only box that fits straight on is Sadev from SWR in Harlow. Others need an adapter etc etc.
Steel sump - easy to do.
Ceramic coating on manifolds and downpipes pushing the heat to the rear is worth the effort as there's better cooling there.
Its hydraulic and a Tilton is easiest fit.
When you see the flywheel (dual mass) you'll go shopping for the trophy one from R sport (wimbledon) - its cheap and light and improves throttle response no end. Modifying and rebalancing the standard one is a pain in the arse
Mk1 all the way - the bottom end is the same anyway and the cams are better for blown engines with less overlap than the mk2.
There is no balance with a V6!! They are short and do great spins suddenly. Kw dampers improve things no end but at the end of the day the front to rear weight bias is not great and physics wins most of the time.
I've run 400+ bhp and now run 350 - the real performance gains are gearing with the sequential - the mk1 box has a daft first gear, mk2 is taller - with Turbos you'd be launching in second with a mk1 set of ratios.
It is great blown and I'm moving to Turbos for low down torque so I can up my final drive a bit.
I believe mine's the cover car in Marchs Fast Car so you will see a lot of the mods in the mag.
You got an engine to make the manifolds on?
Steel sump - easy to do.
Ceramic coating on manifolds and downpipes pushing the heat to the rear is worth the effort as there's better cooling there.
Its hydraulic and a Tilton is easiest fit.
When you see the flywheel (dual mass) you'll go shopping for the trophy one from R sport (wimbledon) - its cheap and light and improves throttle response no end. Modifying and rebalancing the standard one is a pain in the arse
Mk1 all the way - the bottom end is the same anyway and the cams are better for blown engines with less overlap than the mk2.
There is no balance with a V6!! They are short and do great spins suddenly. Kw dampers improve things no end but at the end of the day the front to rear weight bias is not great and physics wins most of the time.
I've run 400+ bhp and now run 350 - the real performance gains are gearing with the sequential - the mk1 box has a daft first gear, mk2 is taller - with Turbos you'd be launching in second with a mk1 set of ratios.
It is great blown and I'm moving to Turbos for low down torque so I can up my final drive a bit.
I believe mine's the cover car in Marchs Fast Car so you will see a lot of the mods in the mag.
You got an engine to make the manifolds on?
Aint no thang...........3ltrs and 6 cylinders is plenty enough to get a big turbo spooling.
And SC CFM output isnt directly comparable to turbo CFM ratings which can make alot more power with alot less ratable CFM.
500bhp is only a GT3076R, which shouldnt take too long to spool. And even with twin GT25R or 28R's your running half the capacity and half the pulse spacings through each. Twice the hassle and twice the space required, more complex charge pipe and downpipe installs etc etc.
PLus you'll get a better sound with a single tubby.
And SC CFM output isnt directly comparable to turbo CFM ratings which can make alot more power with alot less ratable CFM.
500bhp is only a GT3076R, which shouldnt take too long to spool. And even with twin GT25R or 28R's your running half the capacity and half the pulse spacings through each. Twice the hassle and twice the space required, more complex charge pipe and downpipe installs etc etc.
PLus you'll get a better sound with a single tubby.
Ben
Your sounding like my mum!!!
Very sensible and most probably right but I always tried it my way first just so she could look at me and tut tut quietly to herself!!!
Your absolutely right as usual but did a cool swerve around the "have you had it on the car" question. I assume from the picture the turbo sits above the gearbox? Were the pipes made for a Clio V6 or other?
The CFM moment is the reason for change!!
The GT25RS units are from the ice racing cars which use the Renault engine.
The interesting stats are 500 and 500 max but most importantly 380lb/ft from as low as 2400rpm on Motec- seen the dyno plot for this.
Do you reckon the single unit could compete with this? - right now I could go either way but will decide in the next week or so.
Do you have a plot for the single turbo install?
Can you post the image as I have no idea how to!
Oh - and a price for the manifolds
cheers
Mike
Your sounding like my mum!!!
Very sensible and most probably right but I always tried it my way first just so she could look at me and tut tut quietly to herself!!!
Your absolutely right as usual but did a cool swerve around the "have you had it on the car" question. I assume from the picture the turbo sits above the gearbox? Were the pipes made for a Clio V6 or other?
The CFM moment is the reason for change!!
The GT25RS units are from the ice racing cars which use the Renault engine.
The interesting stats are 500 and 500 max but most importantly 380lb/ft from as low as 2400rpm on Motec- seen the dyno plot for this.
Do you reckon the single unit could compete with this? - right now I could go either way but will decide in the next week or so.
Do you have a plot for the single turbo install?
Can you post the image as I have no idea how to!
Oh - and a price for the manifolds
cheers
Mike
Similar threads
- Question