CATS WANTED: Dead or alive.

[Spike]

As some of you will know i am trying to get some cats converted to sports cats, for convienience reasons as there are a few that do not want to go down the full manifold route, also so i can offer a replacement for a knackered cat if one should fail.
To do this i need a couple of pairs of knackered cats to have a play with rather than cut a perfect pair up.
If there is anyone out there that wishes to donate a pair to the cause it would be appreciated, of course i will cover all costs or maybe able to collect.
I would prefer PH2 cats if its at all possible as thats the jig i will get made first, then concentrate on PH1 if there is an interest.
thanx for your help, please pm me.

 

[Spike]

I forgot to mention, the cats do not have to work but the pipework and flanges need to be intact, and of course not folded in half or been in a bang/damaged, these are to make the jigs with, thanx.

 

[® Andy]

Leaving this in the General forum (vs. Wanted) for now so that Spike gets maximum visibility [smilie=thanks.gif].

 

[Ollie1]

As I said before mate you are more than welcome to have mine off my phase 1

 

[Spike]

Thanx, any idea when you will get them off? then just need some ph2.

 

[Ollie1]

I should have them by the end of the day today mate.

 

[phil b]

Mine was a borderline pass on the MOT with the Janspeed back box. Is the aim to create sports cat which will still Pass the MOT?

 

[Spike]

Mine was a borderline pass on the MOT with the Janspeed back box. Is the aim to create sports cat which will still Pass the MOT?

We are going off piste here but here goes, Phil are you saying that you think fitting the janspeed back box has given you a borderline MOT?
If this is the case then your thoughts are misguided, the janspeed i do for the ph2 has no bearing on an emissions pass or fail, if the garage you are using says different then choose another garage! The cats themselves that are under the manifolds are soley responsible for emissions, the cats over the bacvk box are there for when the fuel system goes open loop under hard acceleration, at this point there is excess fuel and this is too much for the lambda to cope with so the ecu is told to ignore the signal as it is a false reading. this is not involved at all with your mot.
My aim for a sport cat is to give the car the ability to pass the MOT test providing everything else is working correctly, as discussed in another post the sports cat wil not indemnify you from the lights coming on under all circumstances, main one being a heavy missfire. however the cat units i am trying to source are of the best quality and of metallic structure not ceramic, so hopefully as with the std cat if everything is working correctly there should be no problem.
Sounds like you may be the first customer?

 

[phil b]

Thanks Spike. I didnt mean the back box was the cause of the emissions problem as i know lots of people on here have passed the MOT with the same exhaust. My car emissions was over on the left bank but ok on the right one. So i guess my question was wether with sports cats it would affect the emission levels. I now understand how they work and it makes me wonder about state my cat on the left bank.

Will there be a difference in sound with these cats ?

 

[Spike]

Hello all, just an update on procedings, which are not good.
I cannot find a replacement for this cat as fitted to the PH2 in this country, i can find them in germany but stocks are low as it is a size that is no longer manufactured by any of the cat companies. the best price i got on these was £350 each, for those who cannot add up thats £700 per pair (plus manufacturing costs), shocking! the only other option i have at the mo is to get these manufactured, and as it is small numbers the price will still be high.
If it would be possible james can you price me the cats from reno, for if they are only £2.50 each i will end this here.
It is the size that is the killer here not the spec, as the mount goes around the cat that mounts it to the engine, any deviation in size and there is no mounting point.
Tune in next week for another expensive installment!

 

[Matt]

Spike,just an idea but what about doing de-cat pipes for those that want to go that route. Tht way people can take their cat pipes off and keep them safe in the garage given the cost of them. Just a thought.

 

[Brett]

That would be the most simple way for sure Matt and I'm sure many would want them. However, I for one wouldn't fancy changing those cats twice a year as although its not a huge job, its bloody awkward and takes six months for the skin on your knuckles to grow back! Lol A permanent solution like spike suggests would be best in my opinion.
Have you not thought about merging both banks (identically like trophy setup) in to one larger cat before the silencer Spike. Costs should be bought down, it will be easier to access the cat and the merge and then split should add a little bit of torque. Just a thought fella.

 

[Spike]

Brett, just read your post, one word...cost!
as for making decat pipes the jig work will / would be in excess of £1200 and i would struggle to get that back as i am struggling to get my original costs back from the silencer. Another problem is the brackets holding the pipes up fits around the cat so a substitute needs to be in place to hold the thing or it will crack due to vibration.
I can get these sports cats, but at a BIG price, much too much to even consider making any at the mo, i do have a set of pipes ready to cut up, the only option is to gut them and go from there but i am loathe to do this due to impending legislation regarding using non cat vehicles on our roads. i dont want the big finger of blame pointing in my direction thanks!
As for the idea of adding a bit of torque, forget it! the pipe lengths are all wrong but we have had this conversation before havent we Brett?
The big problem with this exhaust is that it has to fit within the constraints of a very little car. the french aren't stupid and the design works very well all things being considered.

 

[Brett]

Would be cheaper to use one sports cat as opposed to 2 mate. Pipe lengths arent too bad when the downpipe on the rear bank double backs on itself to merge into one either. Making new down pipes to mate to the oem cast manifolds would be cheap too. No need for jigs if you use an automated mandrell pipe bender.

 

[ColinG]

Spike would a sport cat set up add more noise or overrun popping on top of your own system?

Such a shame on the size of the cats.. If these were available for say £500-£600 they would sell very sell indeed!!

 

[Spike]

Would be cheaper to use one sports cat as opposed to 2 mate. Pipe lengths arent too bad when the downpipe on the rear bank double backs on itself to merge into one either. Making new down pipes to mate to the oem cast manifolds would be cheap too. No need for jigs if you use an automated mandrell pipe bender.

Brett, are you baiting me for an argument here? one sports cat? where would you place it exactly? how would you couple it to either a stock silencer or a janspeed we already have? even reno used four of the things. or is it my thoughts that you would completely redesign all the pipework that exits the back of the car for nowt? or even tow the exhaust on a trailer?
As for an automated mandrel pipe bender, how exactly would you program the machine? i have seen these machines in action in the states, and the program costs would probably be around 5k if you were only having a dozen made, yep, order 5000 of em and you will get the price down but you still need ajig to weld the ends on or the job is all over the place so add another 2k for the jigs, remember, there are two of everything.
Why re-invent the wheel when 1,no one wants to pay or 2, the one that you have does work quite well enough for the majority of owners that is in the position to buy!

 

[Spike]

Spike would a sport cat set up add more noise or overrun popping on top of your own system?

Such a shame on the size of the cats.. If these were available for say £500-£600 they would sell very sell indeed!!

Colin, the cats are an awkward size but not impossible, as for pops and bangs, probably, as you will be burning even less excess fuel off.
If you get me some buyers i can and will advance this, the manufacturers want to sell me about 30 to make it work with prices. as an exchange cat system this could be done for around £700 quid as the cats will be around £250 each if i order that amount, i can get the work done for around £100, this leaves £100 for the jigs, these will cost about £600 each so £1200 making it cost neutral for the financer after 12 sets.
and there is the rub, who will finance this to the tune of £8700 then not see a profit untill 12 sets are sold? (250 x 30 + 1200 = 8700 quid) then start making money...not i.
I will let you find the buyers.

 

[Brett]

Would be cheaper to use one sports cat as opposed to 2 mate. Pipe lengths arent too bad when the downpipe on the rear bank double backs on itself to merge into one either. Making new down pipes to mate to the oem cast manifolds would be cheap too. No need for jigs if you use an automated mandrell pipe bender.

Brett, are you baiting me for an argument here? one sports cat? where would you place it exactly? how would you couple it to either a stock silencer or a janspeed we already have? even reno used four of the things. or is it my thoughts that you would completely redesign all the pipework that exits the back of the car for nowt? or even tow the exhaust on a trailer?
As for an automated mandrel pipe bender, how exactly would you program the machine? i have seen these machines in action in the states, and the program costs would probably be around 5k if you were only having a dozen made, yep, order 5000 of em and you will get the price down but you still need ajig to weld the ends on or the job is all over the place so add another 2k for the jigs, remember, there are two of everything.
Why re-invent the wheel when 1,no one wants to pay or 2, the one that you have does work quite well enough for the majority of owners that is in the position to buy!

Chill your beans fella. Have better things to do with my life than bait people on Spike. I think your onto a winner personaly but was just throwing an idea your way that my mate who builds one off stuff including cnc mergers etc seem to think would work a treat. His work is a work of art and if he says it'll fit IT WIll FIT. We looked into it when my engine was sitting transversely and using a QS exhaust so standard inlet pipework. After all, there has always been more than one way to skin a cat......du dumm.......no pun intended [smilie=thanks.gif]. If the idea was so pointless then why did Reno/Orbisoud develop the race equipment in a similar way ie merge into one and then back out to two and still be able to pick up either side of a dirty great silencer? I certainly wouldn't take the 4 cat setup the original car as a good one. What's the easiest way to raise already high under cover engine bay temperatures.........oh yeah stick a pair of bloody great cheery hot cats in there.
Seems I've offended so ill keep my trap shut as there's no need for it on this great forum. You've done a great job on your Janspeed setup so keep it up. Would be great to see rr print outs this time to show its not all just sound though :approve:

 

[Spike]

Brett, you have not offended, so don't keep your trap shut.
If i say i am having a bad week/month/year, would that help draw a picture.
I do agree that a one -off exhaust would be the way to do it properly but, in the case of the clio v6 absolutely no one will fire the sort of money you are talking into such a project without some rock solid evidence of results, admitted both you and i look at things in a different light, sometimes pipe dreams and sometimes just cos you want to, yep, i am up for that but doing it for the masses not even for cash but to break even is just near impossible at the mo with this car in particular, it just is very good at doing what it does so folk do not want to spend 3k on an exhaust to make 20bhp!
Second to that thought, imagine doing anything, and i mean anything in the motor world of bikes and cars , then imagine the queue of people that have not spent any money waiting to ring you up for critisising you because you are 5p more expensive than fred down the road, whose cars or bikes seem to get as far as the chip shop and break down! then its "can you fix it, i have no money left as i paid all that to fred" , welcome to my world.
Brett, all the very best, Spike.