Brake ducts.

[Kett]

Oh-no! It's started - the curse of the modified Vee is beginning to infect me...

Anyone got any thought about fabricating brake cooling ducts?
The Streamline Carbon Fibre fog light surrounds look like a good place to start...
Is there a MOT issue with regards sacrificing the front fogs?

 

[RUSSO]

HaHa that didn't take long!!!!!!

Sod paying carbon prices ask them to do a set in polyester resin with gel-coat face
Would be a lot cheaper and also you'd get hung for chopping there carbon masterpieces up!!!!!!!

 

[Kett]

HaHa that didn't take long!!!!!!

Sod paying carbon prices ask them to do a set in polyester resin with gel-coat face
Would be a lot cheaper and also you'd get hung for chopping there carbon masterpieces up!!!!!!!

Great advice Phil. :approve:
I didn't think I'd be chopping them up - but simply fitting some mesh and ducting to the reverse (the easy bit)... then channelling to the brakes (the hard bit!).
I'm not sure that the surrounding "gape" from the OEM fogs lights isn't too generous though...

Looks like I could be going down the custom polyester resin route after all. :salut:

 

[Adrian]

Maybe you can use flexible tubing like they use in touringcar racing etc.. to make it more easy to fit. CLICK

 

[Jamesv6]

yozzasport made some a while back. Speak to Fred for info on them.

 

[Kett]

yozzasport made some a while back. Speak to Fred for info on them.

Will do. :approve:

 

[Jamesv6]

fitted in a 182 fog light http://www.trackdayclio.com/brakeducts.html

 

[Kett]

fitted in a 182 fog light http://www.trackdayclio.com/brakeducts.html

I think the more efficient systems direct air perpendicular to the disc face.
(Note: there's less gape with the 182 fog sacrifice)

 

[RUSSO]

I'm not sure that the surrounding "gape" from the OEM fogs lights isn't too generous though...

Would of thought more the better to keep the brakes cool???? Yes, they need to get up to running temp but normal discs could surely do with plenty of cooling :approve: Especially if your tracking it

 

[Brett]

One question. Have you ever suffered from brake fade in your car before?

I've made a set of brake ducts before and if done correctly they do work when needed. They are pointless unless they are sorted at the disk end. I built mine from a set of disk guards which I welded a 45* bend on to. I then connected that to a flexible pipe that in turn lead to the front grill. The rest of the guard was drilled with a 25mm holesaw to let heat out while the duct was blowing cold air in.

 

[Jamesv6]

I''d suggest some temperature controlled percolation fans built into the front bumper.

With all that extra heat from your ever so powerful engine, I wonder if more rear brake cooling is needed?

 

[Kett]

I''d suggest some temperature controlled percolation fans built into the front bumper.

With all that extra heat from your ever so powerful engine, I wonder if more rear brake cooling is needed?

The 'ever-so powerful' engine is not a factor. Cars over 1000kg generate too much brake heat for enthusiastic track work. It's is nigh-on impossible to achieve that weight-loss with a Vee, so some subsidiary improvements might help (what is effectively a lost cause).

The ultimate plan is to have some fun!

 

[Kett]

One question. Have you ever suffered from brake fade in your car before?

Not in the Vee, but I've avoided track use (given it's limitations).
Pembrey circuit (my local) is quite hard on the brakes - x2 hairpins after fast straights - and my Boxster's upgraded brakes used to struggle (in a 200kg lighter car).

 

[Kett]

I've made a set of brake ducts before and if done correctly they do work when needed. They are pointless unless they are sorted at the disk end. I built mine from a set of disk guards which I welded a 45* bend on to. I then connected that to a flexible pipe that in turn lead to the front grill. The rest of the guard was drilled with a 25mm holesaw to let heat out while the duct was blowing cold air in.

That was my conclusion. I said to Russo - the front bumper bit is the easy part!
It was no coincidence that the first image shows a 964rsr type where the whole caboodle is available as a kit.
I'm assuming that you fabricated that system for a mini - was it a complete DIY job? Were the disc guards available off-the-shelf?

 

[Brett]

No, I used to run the mini without anything as the disks were only a tiny 195mm with full race spec pads. They were amazing but only when hot. The main problem was keeping them hot enough to work well but not too hot to fade and boil the brake fluid. They were way too small to do anything with other than water cool them! Lol

I did it on my Volvo S70. Braking was the one area that used to let it down after a few minutes hard graft. On the road it would stop from cold and mild use brilliantly ie in an emergancy stops etc. An area that I think Volvo always focused hard on. The problem was they gripped so well that the heat used to build up very quickly. It used to warp OEM T5r disks (slightly bigger than std cars) very quickly. Hence the reason I ducted them to the lower bumper grills. In the end, with slightly better pads, it worked very well for what it cost and left the car with good bite no mater how hard it was pushed. The best thing it cured was the constant need for new disks.

 

[hualpa_jo]

I was on the Track last week. Anneau du Rhin in France with a lot of rain. I used racing brake fluid so fading wasn't a problem, though the heat itself was one and the disks didn't look very nice any more in the evening. From what I experienced mostly the front brakes are a problem because the rear disks didn't get too hot. Probably because the brake pressure at the rear brakes is pretty low, to low actually when braking in a straight line but I guess that's for security in case you brake in a bend. Now I'm thinking about some kind of ducts too before heat becomes a real problem on the dry track. Has anyone thought about using the wishbone mounted air baffles found on first generation Clios? Or is something known about them in terms of efficiency?

 

[Kett]

This was the type of thing I had in mind...

Plus some words of wisdom from Max in 2007 when Peter255 upgrade his calipers...

I'm liking the brakes but (and I'm not trying to rain on your parade)...

Seems a few people are going around upgrading the brakes and I'm wondering if I just got lucky with mine.

Even before I removed the weight out of my car I did approx 10 track days and never once had brake fade or found them wanting - I was consistently out-braking people (in fact it was one of the few ways I could catch people before I sorted out new suspension etc).

I did go down the braided brakes lines, different fluid and different pad compounds.

Then the car had the weight stripped out of it which is clearly going to make a difference but it then went into our hire fleet where it was constantly abused by a range of drivers from monkeys to "driving gods" and whilst compliants about tricky handling, lack of absolute grunt etc were common no one ever moaned about the brakes.

I did 2 Don Palmer sessions in the car (again before the weight was removed) and whilst Don was not particularly keen on its on the limit manners he was very positive about the braking even making the bold claim that he felt they were some of the most progressive brakes he had experienced on a production car.

Of course brakes can be a very personal thing - some people like binary brakes others prefer a more progressive feel but I'd be interested to hear what it is that is driving people to look to upgrade the standard ones.

Having said all that, Peter, they do look pretty dam good

 

[Brett]

To be honest, I 100% agree with Max hence my first initial question.

 

[Kett]

I was on the Track last week. Anneau du Rhin in France with a lot of rain. I used racing brake fluid so fading wasn't a problem, though the heat itself was one and the disks didn't look very nice any more in the evening. From what I experienced mostly the front brakes are a problem because the rear disks didn't get too hot. Probably because the brake pressure at the rear brakes is pretty low, to low actually when braking in a straight line but I guess that's for security in case you brake in a bend. Now I'm thinking about some kind of ducts too before heat becomes a real problem on the dry track. Has anyone thought about using the wishbone mounted air baffles found on first generation Clios? Or is something known about them in terms of efficiency?

Were you using OEM (Renault) discs & pads?

 

[hualpa_jo]

I think so. I don't know for sure because I haven't changed any brake parts since I bought it.