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The Black Plague - 21 Turbo Quadra from Hungary

Discussion in '21 turbo' started by Kondas21, Jan 14, 2015.

Discuss The Black Plague - 21 Turbo Quadra from Hungary in the 21 turbo area at TurboRenault.co.uk.

  1. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Andrew. They are on the right track but I still have to rest them a lot.
  2. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    After leaving the car in Hungary again (which was kind of a relief after the previous adventures) we took a flight back to the UK. A few weeks later, on my 30th birthday my chest started to hurt really bad. Didn't think much of it at first but soon I wasn't able to breathe. I was diagnosed with pulmonary embolism and became bed bound for nearly 3 months. But I tried to use the time the best way I could: ONLINE SHOPPING!!! :grin.gif: Soon I spent over 2k for parts, including electric mirrors (UK ones don't work with LHD cars), new original clutch bits, a stage 2 kevlar clutch kit from LK Performance, Powerflex bush kit, Forge adjustable actuator and Water tank and the most needed: brake bits. For the front I ended up buying Tarox G88 discs with Ferodo 2500 pads, and for the rear some drilled and grooved discs off the french eBay with Mintex 1144 pads.
    WP_000238.jpg WP_000491.jpg WP_000496.jpg WP_000497.jpg WP_000504.jpg
    These discs may have come from mespieces, but I'm not sure and I haven't seen any since. And of course some more parts from Ollie, including original front shocks. Couldn't wait to see the car again with all the gear fitted. But I had to wait until December, we travelled back to Hungary just before Christmas. However, bad news were awaiting us...

    MOT regulations changed in Hungary since the last time it was done. What you guys need to know, over there you get a MOT for 2 years on cars this age, so the last time I had it done was in 2011. Actually, Joe had it done, I never took the Plague for MOT myself. Another thing you should know, the car would NEVER pass any MOT (there is no cat on it, so emissions are sky high; UK spec headlights; xenon conversion; bucket seat without adjustable backrest are only a few things on the list, not to mention the cut&shut). So I always ended up paying an additional £20-30 to the examiner (thanks to the residual corruption the communism left behind).
    Unfortunately, the regulation changes include not only photographs but also video shoot of the car during examination. Also, the car has to match previous photos taken 2 years earlier. You probably know what's coming...

    Not long after our flight landed in my home town we drove to Joe's place to pick up the car. He came out scratching his head saying: well there is no car... I'm like are you kidding me?
    So he showed up at the MOT garage with the car where they denied the MOT just by looking at the car, since the front end was completely rebuilt - different bumper, lights, nose cone etc. So in order to obtain an MOT Joe had to rebuild the front end to the old spec, pay an extra pocket money of £60, and then build it to current spec. But guess what, a few more problems came up... First of all, the rear brakes seized, left totally, rear only lightly. But when I looked at my front bumper, I started to wonder, what the hell happened?
    Well, as it turned out, Joe fitted the the original shocks (finally) with the original springs, but since the car was lowered to the Nevada shocks, it was sitting way too low. So low in fact, when the brakes were tested at the MOT centre, the bumper hit the floor under braking. That was still the smaller problem, because the shocks weren't stroking where they should have, so the front end became a "lowrider". After taking on a sharp left turn at relatively low speed, I nearly ended up between a few pedestrians as the front end simply bounced away. Still, had no time to do anything, had to drive to Poland. This time I decided buying motorway tickets, not knowing in what condition B roads are. In Slovakia (where the motorway we used lasted only 30 km and cost €13) doing 70 mph in a right bend in the outer lane the car simply bounced over to the inner lane. Luckily, no car was next to us but I thought it will be better to take thing a bit slower...
    la21t, r5gordini and andybond like this.
  3. andybond

    andybond Staff Member

    These updates are like crack ! Always want more ! :)
    Joshyouwahh and Kondas21 like this.
  4. r5gordini

    r5gordini Moderator

    I don't want any crack but I want more updates! Fascinating reading! Almost unbelievable...
    Kondas21, la21t and andybond like this.
  5. la21t

    la21t Well-Known Member

    I need to check out that clutch......

    Fascinating chapter again mate
    Kondas21 likes this.
  6. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Thanks guys. I'm not sure, shall I sell drugs or write books? :D
  7. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    The clutch is rated 25% above original power output so around 200hp. I think I have around 220 but no problems so far. Cost around £450 if I remember well but you can check out their website or give them a call.
  8. DaveL485

    DaveL485 Staff Member

    The line about residual corruption had me in bits! Brilliant!

    This is a fantastic journey.
  9. Turbjj

    Turbjj Well-Known Member

    Hi Kondas,
    Well MOT is a pain in the ass too in Luxembourg. I ended up building the car nearly back to its original specs. I still have to go on a RR and get a certificate that it has no more than 193bhp. I think I can reach that if I turn the boost down enough.
    I had to change a lot, so I have back OE exhaust, shocks, brakes, intercoolers, front bumper, etc on. (Welcome to EU;-) )
    I'm planning on having two complete subframes (just got a brand new subframe) with engine, gearbox, shocks, brakes on, so I can interchange the whole lot and the exhaust every 2 years for MOT.

    And great threat, I enjoyed reading;-)
  10. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Thanks. There is more coming :)
    Yeah sounds like you have it even worse than I did. I just don't get it why the EU does this? It's so much better in the UK, you can do almost anything to the car here and still get a MOT. In time I'm considering to register the Plague in the UK. Only thing though is the insurance, I think as a modified car I would pay £6-700/annum, where's in Hungary I pay around £100...
    andybond likes this.
  11. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Another funny thing is the road tax. In Hungary I pay after horsepower not actual weight. The Plague is one of only 3 Quadras ever registered in Hungary. Because of this, they never made a difference between the 21 Quadra and the 21 Turbo Quadra, so mine is registered @ 77 kW. So I'm LEGALLY paying half the tax (or less) I should:D
    DaveL485 and andybond like this.
  12. Craig Righton

    Craig Righton Well-Known Member

    Search for Motaquip vgc235

    This bottom end set has the liner seals in it. Just got one for @la21t@la21t
  13. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Craig. I'll give it a go :)
  14. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Driving a bit more carefully we made it to Poland and spent the Christmas. I drove back on the 26th so we could do something about the shocks with Joe. So I drove to his place the next morning. About 3 kms from his place a Passat crossed the divider and hit my mirror. I got really mad because the mirrors only spent like 2 weeks on the car and they were quite hard to source. Tried to fit British mirrors before but it's impossible to set them up properly for a LHD car.
    Either way, if the Passat had swerved a few more inches, it could have turned out much worse. The driver admitted full responsibility so all I had to do is make a claim at his insurance provider. But more on this later.
    After this I finally got to Joe's so we could finally do something about the shocks. He quickly fixed the mirror (sort of, it still vibrates and the heater matrix still needs fitting but at least I can see something in it) and then whipped out the shocks. In the meantime I worked on some speakers (I love bass).
    Funny enough, after fitting the lowering springs (40 mm) on to the original shocks, the front sat higher up than before. It become more stable but it is still bouncy, not ideal. But now I wasn't scared to drive to the UK, plus I knew we will fill up the car with 300 kg of jars, a table and some other crap.
    There was the small matter of sorting out the claim, so I phoned the inspector when could he check out the damage. "Earliest on the 6th of January" he said. "That's cool - I replied - but I'm leaving the country on the 2nd". He wasn't happy but managed to take a good look at it, and was surprised about it's rarity.

    Anyhow, we made it back to the UK. But it wasn't the greatest fun with the boost wound down to 0.9 bars, the sticky rear brakes and the constant idle issues. Because Joe didn't fit the Forge actuator, I couldn't wait to start to fiddle with it.
    I don't know if any of you ever fitted one of these, for those who didn't here are some advices.
    I really thought this will be a straight swap, although I should have learned by now, nothing is that simple with this car. Took the old one off easy enough, trying to fit the adjusting screw: it doesn't fit. The thread is half a mm bigger than the original. I had to rethink some stuff so I decided I will redesign it a little for easier adjustability.

    I bought a left hand threaded female ball joint, a male threaded bit that fits in it, a piece of pipe, and went to an engineering company with my drawing of a new adjusting screw. While they were working on the adjuster I knocked the ball out of the ball joint and knocked the pipe in it's place which I cut off later on. Some time later my adjuster was ready too so I happily tried to assemble it. The adjuster wouldn't screw on to the actuator. WTF? Took it back to the engineers with the actuator. Turns out, it has US spec thread on it!!! The bloke asked me if it was for a Ford?! Any way, he re-drilled the thread and now it was good to go.
    WP_000503.jpg WP_000635.jpg WP_000637.jpg WP_000638.jpg WP_000639.jpg
    Because of the left hand thread at one end it's very easy to adjust. The spring inside is good to take 1.4 bars but I'm running the car at 1.2 at the moment.

    A few weeks later Joe phoned me from Hungary with a funny story. The inspector was on the line with him, because he just couldn't come up with a figure on the repairs. So I told Joe to tell him £180, so I would only rip them off by a little bit (the mirror cost me €80:)).
    A week later Joe phoned again. I got around £200 worth of forints for the damage. Happy days...
  15. DaveL485

    DaveL485 Staff Member

    Ive just made a similar thing to support my wastegate, with the left-hand thread one end. Very useful when adjusting :)
  16. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    It is, isn't it? I wonder why Renault didn't think of it in the first place...
  17. DaveL485

    DaveL485 Staff Member

    What, you mean like on the track rod adjusters? :D lol!
  18. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    In the early months of 2014 I didn't get to use the car much as I used to cycle to work. One morning my wife showed up at work with her car - she owns a Honda Civic Mk7 1.7CTDI - saying the battery light came on. Hm it's probably alternator - said I - no worries, let's go home and I'll give you a lift in the Plague. Right, got home, and it did exactly the same!! What are the chances? Both cars ended up with new alternators, thankfully they are both working fine.
    Not long after this I decided to fiddle with the rear fog lights, I wanted one on each side, it is a requirement anyway for registering the car in the UK (in the future). Unfortunately this required destroying a UK cluster (luckily I had one as a spare). Joe cut the required piece and sent it to me. I spent a weekend running around the house with a hot knife I heated up on the hob in order to melt / cut the plastic. Anyhow, I think the result turned out fine. WP_000650.jpg WP_000651.jpg WP_000652.jpg
    After this not much happened until July when I finally received my refurbed 17" wheels. They were rolled, powder coated in black and a Road Runner sticker was applied under the lacquer.
    V__1AC0.jpg WP_000702.jpg I got some Toyo T1R tyres for them in 205/45/17 size. They just fit, don't rub, and I love the performance they provide, even with my shite front shocks the cornering is on a different level.

    In September 2014 the missus travelled away for 2 weeks so I decided it is a good time to try to get the idle issue sorted. By now it became so bad that it could drop and hike 500-700 rpm in about 2 seconds. Interestingly, when started up from cold everything seemed to be fine, the issue started when the car heated up. Got even worse when turned the engine off and on again. After booting it the revs settled for a while and the car pulled fine, but in traffic it was a nightmare. Sudden cut-outs, engine died on me at lights etc (and not because I can't release the clutch properly :)). I tried everything possible, checked gaskets on the manifolds (replaced intake ones) changed all temperature related sensors, knock sensor, MAP sensor, also tried to adjust the butterfly valve. The only way I could get the car perform properly is to open the butterfly valve a lot, but that way my idle was at 1600 rpm, not ideal for traffic (risk of overheat, at that idle speed the fans were just about keeping the engine temperature at bay), not to mention fuel consumption.

    Anyway, I left the car with BBR GTI in Brackley, saying it isn't urgent so they can look into the problem. After 3 months waiting I kind of had enough and told them I want it back before Christmas. They found the following: The sensors are transmitting the right data to the ECU but for some reason the ECU doesn't change the signal sent to the idle valve by much depending on temp. At cold temperatures they registered 2.2 ms and at hot temperatures around 2.6. They compared the data to a Cosworth that had similar problems, and the cold reading was almost the same but the hot was around 8 ms. They also tried another original ECU (from Ollie) but no change in the outcome. The end result: I now have a switchable idle valve which I run at cold temp but switch off when engine is hot. This way the cold idle is around 1200-1400 depending on the day (and the car's menstruation cycle) and 750 when it's hot. However this is still far from ideal and in the meantime I came up with a theory (explaine later). The one good thing, when cold the car won't even start without the switch being flicked on, useful against thieving gypsies.

    I drove the car back to Basingstoke and had fun on the way. After arrival I remembered a bulb needed changing in one of the headlights. When twisting the socket the whole the wires snapped off at the terminals. Everywhere I look on the car wire wise, I find that the y are BLACK, corroded to death. My theory is, that the engine management doesn't work properly because of wiring issues. I came up with the solution, which will be the complete rewiring of the car inside out (but this is still just a plan, and likely to be carried out in Hungary because of the cost) as there are a lot of other wire related problems (rear lights, electric windows, pretty much everything in general). Watch this space. And sorry for not writing for so long, I had a lot of changes in my life in the past few weeks. Hopefully good ones :cool:
  19. DaveL485

    DaveL485 Staff Member

    Similar happened to a mate of mine, he split a wheel on a pothole on his Focus RS and when his wife came out in the Focus ST it's alternator packed up lol

    Dizzyless Ph3 right? This is most commonly caused by something in the ECU. Mine was the same, in fact many have been just the same....something in the control part of the ECU goes weak and struggles to control the idle. I think the stepper type IACV must burn out the variable control or something....it happens to em all. Mine was fixed as soon as I fitted the Adaptronic ECU, same for @dip21@dip21 too. Someone on here had an ECU refurbished too, which cured it for a time but I can't remember who. It was someone outside of the UK, |SAS| rings a bell?
  20. Kondas21

    Kondas21 Well-Known Member

    Dave, are you still running ph3 setup on yours or did you convert to a ph2? I'm considering doing that, I wonder if the ph3 has the same potential tuning wise as the ph2? One thing I know you can't even get an idle valve for the ph3 nowadays...
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