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Big Steve's "ST Cup" Car

Discussion in 'Renault 5 GT Turbo' started by Big Steve - Raider, May 15, 2015.

Discuss Big Steve's "ST Cup" Car in the Renault 5 GT Turbo area at TurboRenault.co.uk.

  1. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    Due to some recent changes in circumstances (which I'll go into later... ;) ) I thought it was time I started a thread about my Cup Car, that's known affectionately as T-Cup by many old hands. Now under my ownership, I've changed the name to ST Cup after me (Steve Thomson) :grin.gif: I bought it from @Billy Pallets@Billy Pallets on 19th May 2012 (nearly 3 years to the day of writing this!)
    111.JPG
    When I bought the car Billy didn't have much information on it's history so my first job was to set out to see if I could find out a little more about the car? I noticed that it had a VIN number stamped on the top of the suspension turret so my first call was to Renault and they put me onto the DVLA.
    31.jpg
    A quick chat with the nice people at the DVLA and I found out that they knew about the car and it had previously been issued with a log book (meaning I can register it for the road!) so I sent off the money and the appropriate form and a few weeks later a log book appeared and I found my first clues to the puzzle.. The name of the first owner STEVE JONES and the registration number it was born with G818 ALK. :clapping.gif:

    I was lucky to get hold of a brochure from the 1990 Renault 5 elf Turbo UK Cup and sure enough found a picture of a chap with the same name (Bottom right):
    Cup1.jpg
    I then managed to get hold of a DVD from the 1990 Series of the Renault 5 elf Turbo UK Cup and then sure enough I found some images of my Cup Car being driven by Steve Jones in 1990!! :declare.gif:

    2.jpg 6.jpg 8.jpg
    13.jpg
    And you can see that both Steve Jones and my car were competitive!
    12.jpg
    I uploaded one clip of my car in action WITH SOME IN-CAR FOOTAGE onto YouTube and you can have a look at that here:
     
  2. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    So I did a few track-days in ST Cup and then spent a fair bit of money re-building the engine and thought I would try out some new Roller Rockers that a chap was making... BIG MISTAKE :ireful2.gif::
    IMG_3138.JPG IMG_3146.JPG
    The roller rockers were in the engine breaking down on the rollers during this video... no wonder it made such a miserable level of power..


    After this set-back I was fed up, so I just hid the car away and concentrated on my 11 Turbo restoration......

    .... so what's changed??? Well last weekend we went to the 30 Year GTT event at Le Chatre in the Raider and @Millie_Bee@Millie_Bee and I went out on the track in the Raider and both thoroughly enjoyed ourselves, and wondered why we were thrashing the Raider around the track whilst I have the ST Cup tucked away in a garage back home... complete with roll cage, harnesses etc....??

    Therefore the decision was made (by me) during the drive home that I was going to get the old ST Cup out of hibernation and get her running again with a view to doing a few track-days this year... and also attend the TurboRenault.co.uk/Cliosport National Day in August...
     
  3. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    So tonight, I grabbed the bull by the horns, and pulled the old girl out of hibernation:
    IMG_20150515_092038.jpg IMG_20150515_092421.jpg IMG_20150515_092428.jpg IMG_20150515_093734.jpg IMG_20150515_095124.jpg
     
  4. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    So what are my plans....?? Well I'm going to have a good look at things this weekend... but after visiting the GTT 30 Year anniversary... I'm thinking I will make many of the same modifications I saw on this "Coupe" there:
    • Power Steering
    • Front Mount Intercooler
    • Cold air intake
    • etc...
    Together with some of the things I discussed with @Jesus in the seat of a five@Jesus in the seat of a five over a couple of MAHOOSIVE beers in Rouen.. :grin.gif:
    P1120733.JPG P1120734.JPG P1120735.JPG P1120736.JPG P1120737.JPG P1120738.JPG P1120739.JPG P1120743.JPG P1120748.JPG P1120751.JPG
     
    mattk and andybond like this.
  5. Lewis

    Lewis Well-Known Member

    Steve good photos there. Is this the electric hydraulic power steering pump that you plan to use?
    If so do you have one or do you have/need a source for one?
     
  6. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    Hi @Lewis@Lewis, thanks for your reply, as I see it there are 3 main options when it comes to power steering for a 5 GTT based on some of the great information I've sourced from other members who have done it on this forum like @Bob@Bob and @r5gordini@r5gordini.

    1) Standard GTT Steering rack with Corsa B electric power steering column drive, grafted on to the standard GTT column:
    • Pro's - No change to the steering rack. No power sapped from the engine to drive the PAS system. PAS assistance can be varied by a small plug in circuit board adjustable by a rotary knob (this is a great feature!). Compact
    • Con's - Modifications needed to the OE 5GTT steering column to fit the Corsa B PAS drive.
    2) Clio PAS rack (I see MK1 or even the new 172/182 racks will fit) driven by remote electro hydraulic pump:
    • Pro's - No change to the steering column. No power sapped from the engine to drive the PAS system. Easiest option to fit I think..? Compact
    • Con's - Change to steering rack and rear engine mount needed (but simple bolt on changes) Level of assistance is unknown as do not know Pump output vs. requirements from rack?

    3) Clio PAS rack (as per option 2) driven by OE Renault 5 Monaco hydraulic power steering pump mechanically driven by engine:
    • Pro's - No change to steering column. No electrical changes needed in car
    • Con's - PAS pump is sapping power from the engine to drive the system (concerns me a little when it comes to 5's driven by the carb which aren't the best at idling and if you need to turn the steering when parking etc... will the engine cut out because of the extra load of the PAS pump pulling inertia from the engine?) Change to steering rack needed. Quite a large unit and takes up space in the engine bay.

    Based on this, I would like to go with option 1, (but don't think my fabrication skills are up to it just yet) so I think I'm going with option 2?

    So to answer your question... Yes I am on the look out for an electro hydraulic drive unit :)
     
  7. Mart

    Mart Staff Member

    Or you could just slap it back together as is, and enjoy the trackdays sooner?

    PAS? Can't see you doing much parallel parking on track, you geeza ;-)

    FMIC isn't needed till over ~20psi, and even then that's more so based on a.c.t's from whichever turbo you have in situ.

    Or just buy a Megane...

    =D
     
    Brigsy, Number 11, Moggy and 2 others like this.
  8. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    You know slap it back together isn't my style.. :grin.gif:
     
  9. andybond

    andybond Staff Member

    With @Mart@Mart on this. I think PAS is a mistake. Will take away the steering feel.
    I would bother with the hassle of a CAI either. You arent tuning a N/A car , the intercooler will do its job with luck.

    Other than that , looks smashing ! :)
     
    Brigsy likes this.
  10. Billy Pallets

    Billy Pallets Well-Known Member

    Power steering? Man up Onion :p

    I found the steering to be very light on track with slicks on.

    Either way - It's good to see the old girl getting some lovin' again.
     
    Brigsy and Pigsnake like this.
  11. Number 11

    Number 11 Well-Known Member

    Sounds great......buy the gear from the fella who sells red rockers...... And reconnect the over boost switch , like the PiC above of the white car.:acute.gif: Mart doesn't understand.... Its for the missus
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
    Mart and Big Steve - Raider like this.
  12. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    :facepalm: Smart arses, the lot of ya!! :grin.gif:

    Ok let me try to explain the Power Steering thing... some years ago when @Adeyspec@Adeyspec had a Supercharged Clio 172, we were both at a trackday (of a now defunkt car club :grin.gif:) and he let me have a drive of his car and It was like a revelation compared to my car I likened it to driving a computer game, you could just chuck it into the corner and it wasn't fighting back (yes I know many of you have already called that "feedback"); It really made an impression on me of how much nicer the car was to drive, so I want to have a go at fitting it to ST Cup.

    So onto today's little adventure... After bringing the ST Cup back over to Thomson Towers last night, I swapped garage space with the Raider, and couldn't resist a little picture of the both of them together.. Beauty and the Beast, so to speak:
    IMG_4255.jpg
    So I got the car into the garage and had a good look round.. IMG_4267.jpg
    IMG_4268.jpg
    I spotted a couple of things that I didn't like the look of....
    1) The Ferodo DS2500 Pads which I'd put into the car brand new for the last trackday I did with it, were looking knackered... although they'd not had a lot of work??? Are they supposed to look like this after a tough life, or is something else wrong??
    IMG_4265.jpg
    2) The exhaust tunnel also seems to be coming away from the rest of the floor for some reason???
    IMG_4260.jpg
    I then realised I had all the power steering kit in the car from Broken 5 Monaco I picked up a few years ago... so I thought I'd have a go at fitting that?!
    IMG_4269.jpg
    IMG_4272.jpg
    IMG_4273.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
    andybond and Number 11 like this.
  13. Number 11

    Number 11 Well-Known Member

    Such good good pics above..... So pleased to see the car finally receive the well overdue mega TLC....... The fun I and others have had with the car over the last 13-14 years.... Cracking car .... Does exactly what it says on the tin......

    Re the pads, new callipers all round and master cylinder a must for any track car..... Annually in my opinion....disks also an option at GSF price's..... Think automotive have an off the shelf braided line pack , they supply the suppliers..... About £30... Airoquipe...... Dot 5.1 ..... Sorted...
     
    Big Steve - Raider likes this.
  14. r5gordini

    r5gordini Moderator

    Cool! The Monaco rack seems a good option and probably easier to fit than anything else - I assume you're watching my thread. Nearly done with my conversion. Got the Saxo electric pump just about fitted. You could always fit the Monaco rack and later on convert to electro-hydraulic. I plan to convert my 21T Quadra to electro-hydraulic at some point, once I have finished the GTT!
    I am really looking forward to seeing how the 182 rack feels once it's all done! Just came up with a snag on mine though - I have managed to melt the throttle cable. Just the end - so I am trying to see if I can resurrect it before biting the bullet and fitting a universal one. Trouble is I have the MOT booked for Wednesday!

    I am with you on PAS. Since fitting it to my Gordini T it has transformed the car.
     
    Big Steve - Raider likes this.
  15. Big Steve - Raider

    Big Steve - Raider Staff Member

    Woo hoo! Someone actually agrees with me on the PAS thing! :friends.gif:
     
  16. andybond

    andybond Staff Member

    Two people have been wrong before ..
     
  17. Brigsy

    Brigsy Media Manager

    Power steering = failo_O power sapping setup, only needed on heavy cars
     
    Mark Davis likes this.
  18. Number 11

    Number 11 Well-Known Member

    10 weeks and 6 days............
     
  19. Mart

    Mart Staff Member

    PAS on a heavier car, I can understand. Even having a heavier engine over the front wheels (eg, as you say, Adey's old motor), then fair enough, but in a stripped out Cup car, with hardly a weakling of a geeza driving it? Really?

    It's also another thing to potentially fail on track.

    Your car, your choice though (y)
     
  20. Brigsy

    Brigsy Media Manager

    The problem with pas is that it usually feels sloppy and vague, the monaco rack probably has more turns lock to lock (not ideal on a track car). The van has a povo spec rack with more turns needed compared to gtt and it feels a bit pants in comparison.

    What you need is a nice quaife or gripper lsd;)
     
    Turbinenrad and andybond like this.
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